Tottenham Hotspur - Diskusjonstråd

[Snurreleif]

Jeg gidder ikke å skrive på nytt det jeg skrev på facebook-gruppa, men her er iallefall min mening om dagens kamp og AVB (på engelsk grøss og gru!):

Alright, wall of text incoming regarding todays game and the discussion regarding Andrè Villas-Boas' future at the lane.

First off, the game today was an absolute disgrace, under normal circumstances a 0-5 loss at home to any team in the world is just not acceptable, however, that isn't a controversial quote, the following however, might be:

I don't blame AVB for it, even if he takes the responsibility after the game.
Why?
Simple, the situation regarding our defence.

Because let us really study the options Villas-Boas and the other coaches had today when it comes to our defence:

RB: Kyle Walker, Kyle Naughton, Younes Kaboul.
Kyle Walker is the definitive nr.1 choice here, and has always been, Naughton was forced to play on LB (explanation follows), and Kaboul is still recovering from injury.

CB: Michael Dawson, Jan Vertonghen, Vlad Chiriches, Younes Kaboul.
The two CB positions should in MY opinion, belong to Jan Vertongen + Vlad Chiriches, or Kaboul + Chiriches, reason for that is these two duos offer both physical prescence and pace (Chiriches is one swift bugger, and Kaboul is, if rumours are true, the fastest Spurs player over a short distance).
However, the issue here is that 3 of those above-mentioned are, well, injured..
Which leaves us with only one proper CB choice; Michael Dawson.

Let's face it, Michael Dawson against Luis Suarez..
...Let's just leave it at that.

Etienne Capoue has been selected to accompany Dawson in the second CB-position, because he has played as a CB in emergency situations before at his old club, Toulouse.
Some people might say "Ezekiel Fryers can play CB, surely", even if that is true, Fryers had, prior to the game, yet to star in a Premier League game for us, and surely this wasn't exactly a good game to make his debut in (lots of pressure, expecting high pace and a lot of focus due to the Suarez vs CBs duel).

LB: Kyle Naughton, Jan Vertonghen, Ezekiel Fryers, Danny Rose.

The two best options here (Vertonghen and Rose), are injured, seeing as Naughton have played LB for us in earlier PL-games he's a safer bet than Fryers who's only starred in cup-games.

Now if you look at our defensive 4 this evening, which consisted of the following:

Walker - Dawson - Capoue - Naughton

and claim that you DIDN'T feel a little sick when you saw that line-up, then you're either lying, or even more naive than me.

This is nowhere NEAR our best defensive line-up, and I do believe the majority would agree in this, so why all this stick towards AVB for this?

"He shouldn't have played such a high line with this back four"

Maybe not, but we have played that high line the entire season, and seeing as Dawson and Walker ought to be used to it by now, you might risk more by changing about even more just for this one game, and can you imagine the stick AVB would get if he were to tell the team to "lay low" at home?
The man who has been criticised by "not daring"?
The man who has been criticised by "not attacking directly?"

AVB didn't have a CHOICE, due to injuries and other circumstances, which in my opinion should clear him when it comes to the line-up.
The only point of the line-up where I disagreed with AVB when I saw it, was Paulinho playing behind Soldado.
With the exception of that first game, I personally believe Paulinho played better in the following matches when he was pushed right back next to Dembele/Sandro, where he had better time and could dictate the play better, the game of Fulham shows this particulary well.
In that position I'd rather see Holtby, due to his tireless work-ethics, and the fact that he is one of few (if any other) players on the team that invites to "one-two" and "pass-and-play" type of football.

It's easy to sit by in hindsight and claim that Paulinho shouldn't have played (today was his worst in a Spurs-shirt by far), but I think as soon as gets pushed further back on the pitch again we'll see more of the Paulinho we saw the first couple of games, completing runs into the box, getting to chances.
He's far better in the air than finishing with his feet, we should take advantage of this by letting him come on deep runs, and rather let the nr. 10 rest outside the penalty area.

But I digress.

As I said, I disagree with AVB in only one point in todays line-up, but seeing as he's a tropy-winning manager with Porto, and I'm just a sofa-hugging norwegian spurs-supporter, I give him the benefit of doubt as to when it comes to his reasons why Paulinho started in front of Holtby today.

Oh and I believe he was right in selecting Soldado over Defoe, seeing as Soldado would've gained confidence with his hatrick against Anzhi Thursday, regardless of the opposition, scoring goals gives you confidence.
That's stated by a countless number of players and coaches, so let's just assume that's true for now.

I believe todays loss comes mostly due to a team which wasn't comfortable with Liverpools pace, neither Dembele, Paulinho (even Sandro before he got injured, lost the ball too easy at a few occasions) had a good day at work today, which resulted in us losing the battle of the midfield.
Which allowed LFCs midfield to connect with Suarez up top.

Luis Suarez, versus Michael Dawson and Etienne Capoue.
......Let's just leave it at that.

No wait, LUIS SUAREZ, versus MICHAEL "SLOWPOKE" DAWSON, and Etienne Capoue!
Dawsons positional play saved him a couple of times, but Suarez's pace and flair was way too much for Dawson to handle on his own, and when Dembele, Paulinho and Sandro sleeps when Dawson intercepts the ball just before the first goal, then it's a given that they'll get a great chance, which turned into a goal.

I believe todays loss was mostly down to the players in the midfield and 3 quarters of our back 4 (Naughton was dreadful against a Sterling that hasn't played that well for over a season) having a horrible day at work, combined with at times exceptional attacking football by LFC.

Can AVB be blamed for Sandros injury?

Can AVB be blamed for Dawsons lack of pace? (People will argue with Dawson not fitting in a high-line defence, this is true, but he has done well with either Vertonghen or Chiriches next to him seeing as we were one of the greedier times at the first part of the season, so I don't see why this should all of a sudden be a horrible decision by AVB, especially when he didn't HAVE A CHOICE!)

Can AVB be blamed for Paulinho having a stinker? (Open for debate seeing as Holtby has been good in the nr. 10 position, however, also Holtby has shown earlier that he can vary in his performances).

Can AVB be blamed for Lennon being practically invisible today?

If the majority of these answers are: "No", then I really don't see why people are shouting out for his head on a plate.

People are saying we don't have any progress under AVB, which strikes me as odd for varying reasons.

1)
Last year was the year when we got our highest point-score ever in Premier League, and that was (as far as I have seen), the only year when that amount of points (72) wasn't enough for a CL-spot.
AVB's fault?

2)
I remember at the start of last season that people criticised AVB and Spurs for conceding late goals, this was from when we played with Vertonghen and Caulker (if memory serves me right) as our CB-pairing.
Fast forward half a season, and our defence actually looks proper solid, combined with having, at the time, possibly the best holding-midfield pair in Dembele and Sandro.

Did AVB get any credit for addressing this issue?

3)
People have criticised AVB for playing with inverted wingers.
Obviously this wasn't something people cried out for last season when we had a welsh wonderkid (I'm fairly confident you remember his name), who cut in and had a crack at goal every single game the last half of the season.
It's true that AVB can't get credit for this very-fond-of-sheep-country wonderkids ability, but he DOES deserve credit for letting Bale play to his strengths.

Did AVB get any credit for letting Bale play to his strengths?

4)
AVB have the last couple of games tried to play with "traditional wingers" (Right-footed on the right, left-footed on the left) due to the fact that Townsend isn't from very-fond-of-sheep-country and doesn't have the qualities of our former wonderkid.
Sigurdsson is too inconsistent, and Chadli seems to prefer to cut inside and actually make a pass (A PASS?! FROM A WINGER?! PRESPOSTEROUS!).
Today we saw him play with one that prefers to play on his "right-side" (no pun intended), and one inverted winger (Chadli), sadly we didn't get to see the fruits of this experiment seeing as we were absolutely rubbish at central-midfield at times (I'm sorry but we were, no pace, no accuracy etc).

However, we did see Chadli cut inside the box, challenge defenders and varying his play, something he does very well in my opinion and is why I prefer him over "Townsend-runs-very-fast" at the moment.
I agree that Townsend had a good game last time he was on the left, but also Townsend struggles with inconsistency, plus I believe Chadli is better in his defensive part of the game, both physically and positioning.

Lennon has an off-day, and as much as I love him, I think we can agree that he is either absolutely brilliant, or he's invisible like today.

My point however, is that when AVB saw that inverted wingers didn't work as he intended (unless he's turned on by Townsends horrible finishing), he gave traditional wingers a try.

This shows a man who sees that things doesn't work, and to me personally prove those who say he's TOO stubborn, wrong.

You see, as a manager, you HAVE to be stubborn to a certain degree, if you disagree with that I ask you if that's not a "quality" you see in manager big-shots like Arsene Wenger, Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho to take a few "local examples".
The manager HAS to stick to his philosophy, because if he's uncertain, then how is he gonna get the respect and trust from the players?

You're allowed to change parts of it and adjust it, but there should always be a plan at the bottom.

Wenger had 70% or so of Arsenals fans on his back this entire summer, and Ramsey was branded as a massive failure and a very very silly man (lack of big fancy words).

Now look at them.
Guess Wenger did good in sticking to his plan and putting faith into his players eh?

I think Lewis Holtby is perfect evidence as to why I believe the players, like AVB, need to get some more time on their hands.
There weren't exactly few supporters who questioned his ability this summer, and they even compared him to Coutinho and asked "Why can't Holtby adjust as easilly?".

Well, why can't you draw as well as Todd McFarlane?

We're talking about PEOPLE, PEOPLE are DIFFERENT, some people adjust quickly, others don't.
We can only speculate in factors, but often the type of league, player, age and change of culture are mentioned.
Sometimes it might however just be as simple as, some need more time than others.

Do people remember Tevez' first season at West Ham?
Wasn't exactly the player we know today was he?

But again, I digress.

People were shouting for Holtby today, 'cos they feel he's one of our best players as of today.
This is quite the turn around in just a couple a months when he was questioned and labelled by some as "a poor purchase" (for 1 million pounds...).

I see not only Holtbys progress, but Ramseys, as the perfect examples as to why consistency is better over a longer time-period, rather than sacking managers and selling players.

There are also critics saying that "But what use is consistency if there's no progress?"

We've had 7 new players coming in over the summer, and even if us "Pro-AVB" sound like broken records here, THEY NEED TIME TO ADJUST AND GEL WITH THE TEAM!
It took time last season before we got started, and it has this season aswell, yet before todays match we have had our second best start to PL ever.

So AVB keeps breaking records for us.

I'd almost be so naive as to call that, progress.

Even Mourinho stated that the result of a single game doesn't matter too much, it is how many points you lose.

And even if these 3 particular losses have been hard to swallow (West-Ham, Liverpool and Man. City), we're still in touch with the top 4 position, and we're only in December.

I know I'll be patient, even if we end up outside the EL-spot I would like to see AVB out the next season aswell.
If we're not seeing any progress then in form of Champions League or titles, then I would agree that AVBs future at the lane should be questioned.

As of now, I hope I haven't wasted time writing all of this just to see AVB sacked in the morning...

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[AllFather]

http://www.tv2.no/2013/12/16/sport/premier-league/england/fotball/5160569#.Uq7fgfTuJp8

[PrettyBoy]

Stakkars AVB..

[InsertNumLock]

Synd, trist, leit. Feller desverre ikke noe tårer. Noe måtte gjøres. Om det er riktig tidspunkt skal jeg ikke si noe på, men spill og resultater henger ikke på greip med satsingen de har gjort.

[Prusk]

Håper dere henter Capello, og ikke Laudrup...

[PrettyBoy]

Så hvem er på deres ønskeliste nå?

[Sexylubb1]

Hvem er ledig utenom de nevnte?

[Posemedchips]

Trist! Så ugudelig mye penger som han fikk bruke, så skjønner jeg styret/Levy med at de forventer mer. Jeg kunne tenkt meg å beholde AVB iallefall ut sesongen, heller gitt han fyken på dette tidspunktet neste sesong hvis ting ikke gikk som det skulle.

 

Men mye penger og prestisje involvert, resultater kreves med en gang. Selvom han har vært en av de aller beste trenerene spurs har hatt med tanke på poengfangst, så har spillet vært litt hipp som happ :/

 

Lykke til videre AVB!!!!

[PrettyBoy]

Hvem er ledig utenom de nevnte?

Di Matteo hehe..

[InsertNumLock]

Skulle tatt Rodgers når det faktisk var muligheter for det..

 

Får bli Tim Sherwood nå da

[Snurreleif]

Hvis spillerne Villas-Boas og Baldini hentet plutselig blomstrer neste år, vet ihvertfall jeg hvem som skal ha æren for det, med mindre den nye manageren er Messias.

Håper dere henter Capello, og ikke Laudrup...

For din eller vår del?

[Posemedchips]

Alltid hatt litt sansen for laudrup. Om det bare er naiv forguding som henger igjen fra barndommen vet jeg ikke.

 

 

Hmm da forsvinner vel gjerne Freund også da?

[Dapper Chap]

Hvorfor røk han? Han fikk jo Tottenham over United på tabellen?

 

Men fra spøk til revolver, så synes jeg det er tåpelig at han fikk sparken. Gi nå manageren litt tid med de nye spillerne. Synes nesten synd i fyren.

[Snurreleif]

Jeg forgudet Solskjær men vil ikke ha han som manager

 

Nja spørs på den nye manageren det, om han vil ha inn sitt eget støtte-apparat eller stoler på det nåværende.

[Snurreleif]

Hvorfor røk han? Han fikk jo Tottenham over United på tabellen?

 

Men fra spøk til revolver, så synes jeg det er tåpelig at han fikk sparken. Gi nå manageren litt tid med de nye spillerne. Synes nesten synd i fyren.

Men det du sier er jo sant.

Forventningene i Manchester United er 50 ganger høyere, og selv etter flaue tap og uavgjort resultater beholder de han grunnet at de nå ikke er så alt for langt bak.

 

Styret vårt virker jo ikke å lære..

 

Gi en mann beskjed om å kjøpe ungt, men ikke gi han tid til å la de få etablere seg.

Hau..

[Emils.]

Hvem er ledig utenom de nevnte?

 

Solskjær ^^

[PrettyBoy]

Hva med Klinsmann? Hva er det han driver med for tiden?

[Snurreleif]

Nettopp fornyet kontrakten med landslaget til USA.

[Dapper Chap]

Gi en mann beskjed om å kjøpe ungt, men ikke gi han tid til å la de få etablere seg.

Hau..

 

Tipper styret har nå regelrett fucket opp resten av sesongen for Tottenham

[Snurreleif]

Jeg har ihvertfall mistet piffen helt nå.

Skal mye til for at jeg skal føle denne seongen har vært "godkjent".

 

Typ tredje eller fjerde-plass, som jo er urealistisk å forvente med en ny manager inn som skal implentere en helt ny spillestil med spillere han ikke har kjøpt.

 

Lurer virkelig på hva som skjer i Januar-vinduet nå..