Nesten aldri sulten...

[Tuddelidu]

*fjernet*

Endret 31. juli 2012 av Tuddelidu

[runerask]

Hei, jeg er nesten aldri sulten, jeg kan gå 5-8 timer uten at jeg blir sulten, jeg har lest på internett osv og de sier at kroppen har tilpasset seg matvanene og sier ifra om den trenger mat, så bør jeg spise når jeg bare er sulten, blir aldri svimmel ellern noe når jeg ikke spiser. Kan godt spiste bare 1 stort måltid om dagen, det er akkurat som kroppen min trenger bare dette...Hva synes dere?

 

Slik har nesten jeg det også. Kan gå noen timer uten å liksom være sulten.

 

Men det har nok noe med vaner og mangel på regelmessige måltider å gjøre. Hadde du hatt regelmessige måltider, ville du ha blitt sulten på dem tidspunktene. Kroppen forbereder da for matinntak og du merker sulten......

[demilio]

Kan være greit så lenge kroppn ikke sier ifra. Ellers kan man jo være litt frempå og spise litt McDonalds eller salt mat. Dette gjør ofte at man blir fort sulten igjen.

[Mademoiselle]

Hm, forståelig nok er det litt vanskelig for meg og andre forumbrukere å kunne si noe om din situasjon, og om det er normalt for deg aldri å være sulten. Dette kommer jo blant annet an på hvor gammel du er, kroppsbygning, muskelmasse samt dine spisevaner og treningsvaner. Dette sier du ingenting om, annet enn at du nevner at du kan klare deg med ett stort måltid om dagen.

 

Det jeg kan si på generelt grunnlag, er at forbrenningen visstnok vil øke om du spiser oftere, men i mindre porsjoner i forhold til å spise ett stort måltid. Som dere har sagt selv, så vil kroppen venne seg til å få mat ofte/sjeldent, slik at du etter hvert ikke vil føle behov for mat så ofte som før hvis du begynner å spise sjeldnere. Jeg er ingen ernæringsfysiolog, men jeg tør kanskje påstå at nettopp mangelen på sultfølelse skyldes at man senker forbrenningen ved å spise så sjeldent som f.eks. én gang om dagen.

 

Trening er også en viktig faktor. Trener du oftere enn tidligere, vil kroppen ha behov for mer mat, og det er ofte en sunn måte å fremkalle sultfølelse på å ta fatt på treningen istedenfor å spise fet mat og høyglykemisk mat. Sistnevnte er det dummeste du kan gjøre. Du bare lurer kroppen din. Spis langsomme karbohydrater og tren mer om du aldri er sulten. Men for all del, om du ikke kjenner sult og ikke har behov for mer mat enn du får i deg, så er det vel ikke meningen at du trenger mer.

 

Fellen mange går i når det gjelder matinntak, er at de tror de spiser for lite og tilfører kroppen for få kalorier i løpet av dagen, når faktum er at mange av disse kaloriene kommer så "uskyldig" fra drikker og godterier. Spiser du is, kaker, sjokolade og drikker juice, brus og saft, får du i deg mange kalorier som kan stjele sultfølelsen. Hvis du dermed tilfører kroppen nye søtsaker og høyglykemisk skvip når denne følelsen melder seg, så er det jo klart at man aldri blir sulten. Men man legger verken på seg eller går ned heller, fordi man likevel kan spise opptil 2000 kcal ved bare å proppe i seg cola og potetgull også, selv om man spiser kun ett ordentlig hovedmåltid om dagen.

[Stian89]

Det jeg kan si på generelt grunnlag, er at forbrenningen visstnok vil øke om du spiser oftere, men i mindre porsjoner i forhold til å spise ett stort måltid.

 

Dette er en godt avkreftet myte.

 

Hvor ofte du spiser spiller ingen trille på forbrenningen, dog bør du sørge for å få i deg næring spesielt rett etter trening.

 

Hvis det passer fint for deg å spise 3 måltider til dagen, istedet for 5-6, så er det altså ingenting i veien for å gjøre dette, hvis du klarer å dekke behovet ditt med så få måltider. (Klarer du å få i deg nok kcal hvert måltid?).

 

Hvis jeg var deg ville jeg satt meg ned og regnet ut kcal-forbruket mitt, og sett på kostholdet du har pr i dag for å se hvordan det stemmer overens med behov. Hvis du spiser veldig lite ligger du ganske trolig i sparemodus, noe som ikke er å anbefale.

[Mademoiselle]

Har du noen kildehenvisninger, Stian89? Jeg vil gjerne lese om at myten er avkreftet. Selv har jeg ingen spesiell formening om hva som er det beste, da jeg likevel sørger for å spise tre hovedmåltider og noen mellommåltider med frukt, grønnsaker og yoghurt.

[Stian89]

Du har f.eks dette.

 

 

1. "The daily distribution of food intake can influence the regulation of energy balance and, in consequence, the control of body weight. Two aspects of this question must be considered: the daily number of eating occasions and their temporal distribution. Since the 1960s, epidemiological studies have reported an inverse relationship between frequency of eating and body weight, suggesting that a "nibbling" pattern could help to prevent obesity. This notion has later been put into question by the recognition of a high level of dietary underreporting in overweight individuals. In addition, no difference in total daily energy expenditure has been documented as a function of daily meal number. Weight loss is not facilitated by high meal frequency. Snacking in obese subjects is associated with higher energy and fat intake. By contrast, in normal-weight people, snacking does not necessarily lead to increased energy intake, while snacks often contain more carbohydrates and less fat than regular meals. Obese people tend to eat little in the morning and much in the afternoon and the evening. In extreme cases, a "night-eating syndrome" is observed. Understanding the relationship between the circadian distribution of intake and obesity (or resistance to weight loss) seems critical for theoretical as well as clinical reasons."

 

Impact of the daily meal pattern on energy balance; Scandinavian Journal of Nutrition, Volume 48, Number 3, October 2004 , pp. 114-118(5)

 

 

2. "Several epidemiological studies have observed an inverse relationship between people's habitual frequency of eating and body weight, leading to the suggestion that a 'nibbling' meal pattern may help in the avoidance of obesity. A review of all pertinent studies shows that, although many fail to find any significant relationship, the relationship is consistently inverse in those that do observe a relationship. However, this finding is highly vulnerable to the probable confounding effects of post hoc changes in dietary patterns as a consequence of weight gain and to dietary under-reporting which undoubtedly invalidates some of the studies. We conclude that the epidemiological evidence is at best very weak, and almost certainly represents an artefact. A detailed review of the possible mechanistic explanations for a metabolic advantage of nibbling meal patterns failed to reveal significant benefits in respect of energy expenditure. Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral. More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24 h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are likely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation."

 

Meal frequency and energy balance. Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S57-70.

 

 

3. OBJECTIVE: To test if a diet of 4.2 MJ/24 h as six isocaloric meals would result in a lower subsequent energy intake, or greater energy output than (a) 4.2 MJ/24 h as two isocaloric meals or (b) a morning fast followed by free access to food.

 

CONCLUSIONS: In the short term, meal frequency and a period of fasting have no major impact on energy intake or expenditure but energy expenditure is delayed with a lower meal frequency compared with a higher meal frequency. This might be attributed to the thermogenic effect of food continuing into the night when a later, larger meal is given. A morning fast resulted in a diet which tended to have a lower percentage of energy from carbohydrate than with no fast.

 

Compared with nibbling, neither gorging nor a morning fast affect short-term energy balance in obese patients in a chamber calorimeter. International Journal Of Obesity, April 2001, Volume 25, Number 4, Pages 519-528

 

 

4. "RESULTS: Fasting glucose and insulin values were not affected by meal frequency, but peak insulin and AUC of insulin responses to the test meal were higher after the irregular compared to the regular eating patterns (P < 0.01). The irregular meal frequency was associated with higher fasting total (P < 0.01) and LDL (P < 0.05) cholesterol. CONCLUSION: The irregular meal frequency appears to produce a degree of insulin resistance and higher fasting lipid profiles, which may indicate a deleterious effect on these cardiovascular risk factors."

 

Regular meal frequency creates more appropriate insulin sensitivity and lipid profiles compared with irregular meal frequency in healthy lean women. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2004 Jul;58(7):1071-7.

 

 

5. "During the first 2 days of starvation there is often a small absolute increase in BMR relative to values obtained after an overnight fast."

 

Protein-Energy Interactions, United Nations University, UN ACC-Subcommittee on Nutrition, the International Dietary Energy Consultancy Group (I/D/E/C/G).

 

 

6. "This experiment is the first in humans to show that intermittent fasting increases insulin-mediated glucose uptake rates, and the findings are compatible with the thrifty gene concept."

 

Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men. J Appl Physiol. 2005 Dec;99(6):2128-36. Epub 2005 Jul 28.

 

 

7. "Dietary restriction has been shown to have several health benefits including increased insulin sensitivity, stress resistance, reduced morbidity, and increased life span. The mechanism remains unknown, but the need for a long-term reduction in caloric intake to achieve these benefits has been assumed. We report that when C57BL/6 mice are maintained on an intermittent fasting (alternate-day fasting) dietary-restriction regimen their overall food intake is not decreased and their body weight is maintained. Nevertheless, intermittent fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or exceeded those of caloric restriction including reduced serum glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to excitotoxic stress. Intermittent fasting therefore has beneficial effects on glucose regulation and neuronal resistance to injury in these mice that are independent of caloric intake."

 

Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of dietary restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to injury from calorie intake. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2003 May 13; 100(10): 6216–6220.

 

 

8. "We conclude that CR and IF dietary regimens can ameliorate age-related deficits in cognitive function by mechanisms that may or may not be related to Abeta and tau pathologies."

 

Intermittent fasting and caloric restriction ameliorate age-related behavioral deficits in the triple-transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer's disease.

Neurobiol Dis. 2007 Apr;26(1):212-20. Epub 2007 Jan 13.

 

 

9. "Although all cells in the body require energy to survive and function properly, excessive calorie intake over long time periods can compromise cell function and promote disorders such as cardiovascular disease, type-2 diabetes and cancers. Accordingly, dietary restriction (DR; either caloric restriction or intermittent fasting, with maintained vitamin and mineral intake) can extend lifespan and can increase disease resistance. Recent studies have shown that DR can have profound effects on brain function and vulnerability to injury and disease. DR can protect neurons against degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and Huntington's diseases and stroke. Moreover, DR can stimulate the production of new neurons from stem cells (neurogenesis) and can enhance synaptic plasticity, which may increase the ability of the brain to resist aging and restore function following injury. Interestingly, increasing the time interval between meals can have beneficial effects on the brain and overall health of mice that are independent of cumulative calorie intake. The beneficial effects of DR, particularly those of intermittent fasting, appear to be the result of a cellular stress response that stimulates the production of proteins that enhance neuronal plasticity and resistance to oxidative and metabolic insults; they include neurotrophic factors such as brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), protein chaperones such as heat-shock proteins, and mitochondrial uncoupling proteins. Some beneficial effects of DR can be achieved by administering hormones that suppress appetite (leptin and ciliary neurotrophic factor) or by supplementing the diet with 2-deoxy-d-glucose, which may act as a calorie restriction mimetic. The profound influences of the quantity and timing of food intake on neuronal function and vulnerability to disease have revealed novel molecular and cellular mechanisms whereby diet affects the nervous system, and are leading to novel preventative and therapeutic approaches for neurodegenerative disorders."

 

Meal size and frequency affect neuronal plasticity and vulnerability to disease: cellular and molecular mechanisms.

J Neurochem. 2003 Feb;84(3):417-31.

 

 

10. "Intermittent fasting (IF; reduced meal frequency) and caloric restriction (CR) extend lifespan and increase resistance to age-related diseases in rodents and monkeys and improve the health of overweight humans. Both IF and CR enhance cardiovascular and brain functions and improve several risk factors for coronary artery disease and stroke including a reduction in blood pressure and increased insulin sensitivity. Cardiovascular stress adaptation is improved and heart rate variability is increased in rodents maintained on an IF or a CR diet. Moreover, rodents maintained on an IF regimen exhibit increased resistance of heart and brain cells to ischemic injury in experimental models of myocardial infarction and stroke. The beneficial effects of IF and CR result from at least two mechanisms--reduced oxidative damage and increased cellular stress resistance. Recent findings suggest that some of the beneficial effects of IF on both the cardiovascular system and the brain are mediated by brain-derived neurotrophic factor signaling in the brain. Interestingly, cellular and molecular effects of IF and CR on the cardiovascular system and the brain are similar to those of regular physical exercise, suggesting shared mechanisms. A better understanding of the cellular and molecular mechanisms by which IF and CR affect the blood vessels and heart and brain cells will likely lead to novel preventative and therapeutic strategies for extending health span."

 

Beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and caloric restriction on the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular systems.

J Nutr Biochem. 2005 Mar;16(3):129-37.

 

 

11. "The vulnerability of the nervous system to advancing age is all too often manifest in neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases. In this review article we describe evidence suggesting that two dietary interventions, caloric restriction (CR) and intermittent fasting (IF), can prolong the health-span of the nervous system by impinging upon fundamental metabolic and cellular signaling pathways that regulate life-span. CR and IF affect energy and oxygen radical metabolism, and cellular stress response systems, in ways that protect neurons against genetic and environmental factors to which they would otherwise succumb during aging. There are multiple interactive pathways and molecular mechanisms by which CR and IF benefit neurons including those involving insulin-like signaling, FoxO tran******ion factors, sirtuins and peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors. These pathways stimulate the production of protein chaperones, neurotrophic factors and antioxidant enzymes, all of which help cells cope with stress and resist disease. A better understanding of the impact of CR and IF on the aging nervous system will likely lead to novel approaches for preventing and treating neurodegenerative disorders."

 

Caloric restriction and intermittent fasting: two potential diets for successful brain aging.

Ageing Res Rev. 2006 Aug;5(3):332-53. Epub 2006 Aug 8.

 

 

12. "These results demonstrate that GH—possibly by maintenance of circulating concentrations of free IGF-I—is a decisive component of protein conservation during fasting and provide evidence that the underlying mechanism involves a decrease in muscle protein breakdown."

 

The Protein-Retaining Effects of Growth Hormone During Fasting Involve Inhibition of Muscle-Protein Breakdown. Diabetes 50:96-104, 2001

 

 

13. "Glucose kinetics and organ substrate balance were measured basally and for 5 h after eating pizza (600 kcal) containing carbohydrates 75 g as starch, proteins 37 g, and lipids 17 g.

 

It is concluded that in human subjects, 1) the absorption of a natural mixed meal is still incomplete at 5 h after ingestion"

 

Splanchnic and leg substrate exchange after ingestion of a natural mixed meal in humans. Diabetes, Vol 48, Issue 5 958-966, (1999)

 

 

14. "When the diet was served in six equal meals per (lay, the women’s mean serum cholesterol level was intermediate between but not significantly different from that observed on the three meals per day or two small and one large meal per day regimens. Serum levels of phospholipids, glycerides, and total fatty acids were not significantlyn affected by the frequency or size of meals. No significant differences among the regimens were observed in the retention of nitrogen, calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus, in fat digestibility, or in urinary excretion of thiamine and riboflavin."

 

Frequency and size of meals and serum lipids, nitrogen and mineral retention, fat digestibility, and urinary thiamine and riboflavin in young women. Am J Clin Nutr. 1967 Aug;20(8):816-24.

 

 

15. "The results suggest that muscle protein synthesis responds rapidly to increased availability of amino acids but is then inhibited, despite continued amino acid availability. These results suggest that the fed state accretion of muscle protein may be limited by a metabolic mechanism whenever the requirement for substrate for protein synthesis is exceeded."

 

"Furthermore the oversupply of amino acids beyond the currently identified requirement when given continuously may have no benefit in stimulating tissue synthesis but merely stimulate the induction of enzymes of amino acid catabolism"

 

Latency and duration of stimulation of human muscle protein synthesis during continuous infusion of amino acids. Journal of Physiology (2001), 532.2, pp. 575-579

 

 

16. "To determine whether human lipogenesis is influenced by the frequency of meal consumption, 12 subjects were divided into two groups and fed isocaloric nutritionally adequate liquid diets over 3 days, either as three larger diurnal (n = 6) or as six small, evenly spaced (n = 6) meals per day."

 

"These findings suggest that consuming fewer but larger daily meals is not accompanied by increases in triglyceride fatty acid synthesis, despite the observation of hormonal peaks."

 

Meal frequency influences circulating hormone levels but not lipogenesis rates in humans. Metabolism. 1995 Feb;44(2):218-23.

 

 

17. "A gorging pattern of energy intake resulted in a stronger diurnal periodicity of nutrient utilization, compared to a nibbling pattern. However, there were no consequences for the total 24 h energy expenditure (24 h EE) of the two feeding patterns (5.57 +/- 0.16 kJ/min for the gorging pattern; 5.44 +/- 0.18 kJ/min for the nibbling pattern). Concerning the periodicity of nutrient utilization, protein oxidation during the day did not change between the two feeding patterns. In the gorging pattern, carbohydrate oxidation was significantly elevated during the interval following the first meal (ie from 1200 h to 1500 h, P less than 0.01) and the second meal (ie from 1800 h to 2100 h, P less than 0.05). The decreased rate of carbohydrate oxidation observed during the fasting period (from rising in the morning until the first meal at 1200 h), was compensated by an increased fat oxidation from 0900 to 1200 h to cover energy needs. In the nibbling pattern, carbohydrate and fat oxidation remained relatively constant during the active hours of the day."

 

Influence of the feeding frequency on nutrient utilization in man: consequences for energy metabolism. Eur J Clin Nutr. 1991 Mar;45(3):161-9.

 

 

18. "RESULTS: There were no significant alterations in either the positive or negative regulators of muscle mass at either 15 or 40 h, when compared to gene expression measured 3 h after a meal. Similarly, plasma myostatin and IGF-1 were also unaltered at these times. CONCLUSIONS: Unlike previous observations in catabolic and cachexic diseased states, short-term fasting (40 h) fails to elicit marked alteration of the genes regulating both muscle-specific protein synthesis or atrophy. Greater periods of fasting may be required to initiate coordinated inhibition of myogenic and atrogenic gene expression."

 

Actions of short-term fasting on human skeletal muscle myogenic and atrogenic gene expression. Ann Nutr Metab. 2006;50(5):476-81. Epub 2006 Aug 24.

 

 

19. "Irregular meal frequency led to a lower postprandial energy expenditure compared with the regular meal frequency, while the mean energy intake was not significantly different between the two. The reduced TEF with the irregular meal frequency may lead to weight gain in the long term."

 

Decreased thermic effect of food after an irregular compared with a regular meal pattern in healthy lean women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004 May;28(5):653-60.

 

 

Dette har forresten vært oppe ganske mange ganger på denne delen av forumet, men på den annen side har jeg ikke sett så mye til deg her, så det var vel ikke så godt å vite.

 

Det er også diskutert en del rundt dette på treningsforum.no

[Mademoiselle]

Stian89 sa: "Dette har forresten vært oppe ganske mange ganger på denne delen av forumet, men på den annen side har jeg ikke sett så mye til deg her, så det var vel ikke så godt å vite.

 

Det er også diskutert en del rundt dette på treningsforum.no"

 

 

Javel. Nå har jeg lest 1000 steder at det er en fordel for forbrenningen (og hvertfall blodsukkeret) å spise mange små måltider. Dette hadde jeg faktisk om på en gymprøve også. Så jeg velger nesten å gå for myten.

Endret 23. juli 2008 av Mademoiselle

[Stian89]

Gymboka er gammel for gammel. Det flyter uhorvelig mye feilinformasjon rundt på nettet.

 

Gymlæreren din har vel også fortalt deg noe så idiotisk som at tøyning hjelper mot gangsperre, kan jeg tenke meg?

[Mademoiselle]

Gymboka er gammel for gammel. Det flyter uhorvelig mye feilinformasjon rundt på nettet.

 

Gymlæreren din har vel også fortalt deg noe så idiotisk som at tøyning hjelper mot gangsperre, kan jeg tenke meg?

Nei, langt ifra! Vi frarådes å tøye etter spesielt styrketrening. Vi er ikke noen 50-tallsskole heller...