Prekestolen - løst og fast om tro

[Timeo]

BBC skriver at søksmålet mot Gud ble avlyst pga manglende bosteds-adresse til saksøkte, samt at rettsaken ikke kan fortsette fordi man ikke har tilgang til den saksøkte klienten. Så jeg tenkte at dette var jammen et godt eksempel som kan brukes på anklager mot Gud som blir satt frem her på forumet også! For hvordan kan egentlig noen sitte og føre frem anklager mot Gud når de ikke engang vet hvem Han er? De som sier at de har møtt han har jo bare gode ting å fortelle, men de som ikke tror han eksisterer mener altså at Gud er veldig negativ, uten noen klare bevis.

 

Er det ikke sånn at man er uskyldig til det motsatte er bevist? Og hvordan kan man bevise noe når man snakker om noe man ikke kjenner?

 

Jesaja 55,8 For mine tanker er ikke deres tanker,

og deres veier er ikke mine veier,

lyder ordet fra Herren.

9 Som himmelen er høyere enn jorden,

er mine veier høyere enn deres veier

og mine tanker høyere enn deres tanker.

[____________]

Jupp, Gud svarer aldri for seg i det offentlige, falsiferbare rom. Rart.

 

Rart hvordan alle disse figurene aldri gjør dette - Batman, Julenissen, Odin, Det flyvende spaghettimonsteret ...

 

Rart at noen kan tro på noe de ikke vet hva er - skjønt disse noen stoler blint på hva en bok postulerer at dette noe nettopp er. Så viderefører disse noen denne postuleringen, som om de visste hva dette noe var.

 

 

Jeg for min del peker bare ut feil i denne postuleringen, jeg sier ikke at jeg vet hvem - eller hva for den saks skyld - gud er.

Det virker som om ingen gjør det, egentlig; de kun siterer en gammel bok.

Kan du definere gud, Bellicus?

[spellbound]

Det var jo en god ide å saksøke gud. Dersom han hadde eksistert vel å merke...

[Timeo]

Jeg for min del peker bare ut feil i denne postuleringen, jeg sier ikke at jeg vet hvem - eller hva for den saks skyld - gud er.

Det virker som om ingen gjør det, egentlig; de kun siterer en gammel bok.

Kan du definere gud, Bellicus?

 

Jeg har bare sett bittesmå glimt av lyset som kommer fra Gud, og den umiddelbare reaksjonen min når jeg får se dette er: "VIL HA MER!" Så det er egentlig alt jeg vet, at Gud er noe jeg vil ha mer av og at jeg vil leve hos han i evigheten og fortelle andre om han sånn at de også kan få se det samme.

 

Men nei, jeg kan ikke definere Gud. Han er mer enn hva et menneske kan definere.

 

[KVTL]

Minner om retningslinjenes punkt 10, som blandt annet sier dette om korte meningsløse innlegg:

 

Korte, unødvendige innlegg kun egnet til å øke brukerens antall poster regnes som spam, og kan straffes deretter. Det samme gjelder unødvendig/overdrevet bruk av smiles, eller innlegg som ikke inneholder annet enn smiley's.

Innlegg som strider med dette er fjernet fra tråden.

 

(Reaksjoner på moderering tas på PM og ikke i tråden som blir moderert.)

[Reeve]

BBC skriver at søksmålet mot Gud ble avlyst pga manglende bosteds-adresse til saksøkte, samt at rettsaken ikke kan fortsette fordi man ikke har tilgang til den saksøkte klienten. Så jeg tenkte at dette var jammen et godt eksempel som kan brukes på anklager mot Gud som blir satt frem her på forumet også! For hvordan kan egentlig noen sitte og føre frem anklager mot Gud når de ikke engang vet hvem Han er? De som sier at de har møtt han har jo bare gode ting å fortelle, men de som ikke tror han eksisterer mener altså at Gud er veldig negativ, uten noen klare bevis.

 

Er det ikke sånn at man er uskyldig til det motsatte er bevist? Og hvordan kan man bevise noe når man snakker om noe man ikke kjenner?

 

Jesaja 55,8 For mine tanker er ikke deres tanker,

og deres veier er ikke mine veier,

lyder ordet fra Herren.

9 Som himmelen er høyere enn jorden,

er mine veier høyere enn deres veier

og mine tanker høyere enn deres tanker.

 

Litt rart at du går fra å påstå at du kjenner Gud så godt, vet hvordan han har skapt universet og alt annet (mer eller mindre da, kanskje ikke detaljer, men vet at han har gjort det, i det minste), vet om alt det gode han gjør etc., mens du andre steder, som i dette innlegget, påstår at man ikke kan bevise noe om noe man ikke kjenner? Hvordan kan du da bevise, eller stole på det Bibelen sier om han (kanskje Bibelen er skrevet av mennesker som har vært i direkte kontakt med Gud, men hvordan kan du vite at disse har forstått han?, og hvordan vet du at du tolker Bibelen rett?), stole på de følelsene du har av hans tilstedeværelse i deg, eller stole på andres meninger om Guds tilstedeværelse hos dem?

 

Det blir jo bare et hav av motsigelser. Noen ganger, som oftest når vi skal dømme Gud, bokstavelig eller ikke, så påstår du at vi ikke kan kjenne han, vite hans mening osv., mens du minst like ofte påstår å kjenne han nesten bedre enn noen andre.

[Reeve]

 

Oh really?!

 

Følgende er sitater fra nye testamente, tatt fra skepticsannotatedbible.com:

Injustice in the New Testament

Klikk for å se/fjerne spoilerteksten nedenfor

Injustice in the New Testament He that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.--John 3:36

 

But you ask me what the scariest things are in Christianity: this infatuation with biblical prophecy and this notion that Jesus is going to come back as an avenging savior to kill all the bad people. -- Sam Harris, Beliefnet inverview

MatthewWhile insulting the Pharisees and Sadducees, John the Baptist calls an entire generation a "generation of vipers." 3:7Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17Don't defend yourself in court. 5:40"If ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Fair is fair! 6:15

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19"My servant lieth at home sick."

Here was the perfect opportunity for Jesus to condemn slavery. All he'd have to do is say, "OK, I'll heal him. But then you must set your slave free, because slavery is an abomination to God." 8:5-9

"the children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32Jesus tells his disciples to keep away from the Gentiles and Samaritans, and go only to the Israelites. 10:5-6Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28"Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." 10:33Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36Jesus warns us not to love our parents or children too much. We have to make sure that we always love him (who we don't even know existed) more than our family. 10:37Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24When Jesus' mother and brothers want to see him, Jesus rudely asks, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?" So much for Jesus' family values. 12:47-49Jesus explains that the reason he speaks in parables is so that no one will understand him, "lest ... they ... should understand ... and should be converted, and I should heal them." 13:10-15"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath." Isn't this from the Republican Party platform? 13:12Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7Jesus refuses to heal the Canaanite woman's possessed daughter, saying "it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to the dogs." 15:22-26"Whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."

If you want to stay alive, you must lose your life (kill yourself?) for Jesus' sake. 16:25

Jesus condemns the whole world, saying "Woe unto the world because of offenses." 18:7Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. 18:25"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34Rich people don't go to heaven. For as Jesus says, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 19:23Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 19:29In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13Jesus condemns the Jews for being "the children of them which killed the prophets." 23:31Jesus blames his the Jews (who were then living) for "all the righteous blood" from Abel to Zecharias, 23:35Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51Jesus will give to those who already have and take from those who have nothing. He must've been a republican. 25:29The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46"His blood be on us, and on our children." This verse blames the Jews for the death of Jesus and has been used to justify their persecution for twenty centuries. 27:25 MarkJesus becomes angry at those who said that he had "an unclean spirit," so he announces the unforgivable sin: "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost." 3:29Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12"For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath." -- The US Republican Party motto 4:25Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10Jesus initially refuses to cast out a devil from a Syrophoenician woman's daughter, calling the woman a "dog". After much pleading, he finally agrees to cast out the devil. 7:27If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38Jesus gets mad at his disciples for failing to cast out a devil and says, "O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? 9:19Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49Jesus says that rich people cannot go to heaven. For "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 10:25Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and families. 10:29-30In the last days God will make things especially rough on pregnant women. 13:17Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16 LukeGod strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20"How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"

Just a few verses earlier (1:17-20), Zacharias is struck dumb for doubting his wife's angel-assisted pregnancy. Why wasn't Mary punished for her disbelief? 1:34-35

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9"Be content with your wages" -- no matter how unjust they may be. 3:14John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17Peter and his partners (James and John) abandon their wives and children to follow Jesus. 5:11Jesus says that people who are rich, well-fed, happy, or respected are going to hell. 6:24-26"That he would come and heal his servant"

Here was the perfect opportunity for Jesus to condemn slavery. All he'd have to do is say, "OK, I'll heal him. But then you must set your slave free, because slavery is an abomination to God." 7:2-10

Jesus says that he speaks in parables so "that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." 8:10Jesus, when told that his mother and brothers want to see him, ignores and insults them by saying that his mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it. 8:20-21Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37Jesus speaks harshly to his disciples because they couldn't cure epilepsy by casting out devils. 9:41Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15Jesus blames all the deaths of the prophets [from Abel(?) to Zacharias] on his generation. 11:47-50Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5Those who "blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" will never be forgiven. 12:10Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47Jesus calls the people hypocrites because they cannot "discern this time." 12:56"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." 13:3, 5According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30Jesus says that his disciples must hate their families (mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, children) and themselves. 14:26If you want to be a disciple of Jesus, you must abandon everything, including your family. 14:33In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31 Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27Jesus also believes the story about Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32Rich people cannot go to heaven. "For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." 18:25In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27 JohnAs an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14"Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not ... No man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

God decides who will believe (and therefore Go to heaven) and those who will not (and therefore go to hell). We have nothing to do with it. 6:64-65

Jesus tells his family that he wasn't going to the feast, but later goes "in secret." 7:8-10If you don't believe in Jesus, you will "die in your sins" (and then go to hell). 8:24Jesus calls his opponents (the Jews) the sons of the devil. 8:44The disciples ask Jesus about the cause of a man's blindness. Was it because he or his parents sinned? Jesus said neither had sinned. The man was born blind so that Jesus could show off his powers by curing him of his blindness. 9:1-3Jesus says that he has come to make people blind. 9:39"All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers."

Everyone that ever lived before Jesus was a thief and a robber. 10:8

Lararus must suffer and die so that Jesus can "be glorified" by raising him from the dead. 11:4Mary wastes expensive ointment on Jesus' feet, rather than selling the ointment and giving the money to the poor. But Jesus thinks his feet are more important, saying that poor people will always be around, but he and his precious feet won't be. (According to the New Oxford Annotated Bible, 300 denarii would be nearly a year's wage for a laborer.) 12:3-8You must hate your life in order to keep it. (If you love your life, you'll go to hell after you die.) 12:25The reason people didn't believe in Jesus was that God had "blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart." God did this so that they would not "understand with their heart, and be converted." This way God could damn more people to hell. 12:40If you don't believe in Jesus you are going to hell. 12:48Jesus is the only way to heaven. All other religions lead to hell. 14:6"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father."

If you follow Jesus' teachings, God will love you -- otherwise... well, you know. 14:21

Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6Now that Jesus has come, non-believers have no excuse for not believing in him. 15:22 ActsPeter blames the Jews for the death of Jesus. 3:14-15Peter claims that Dt.18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all nonchristians) must be killed. 3:23God will torture forever those who don't know the password to heaven. 4:12Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10Once again, Peter accuses the Jews of murdering Jesus. 5:30Stephen blames the Jews for persecuting the prophets and murdering Jesus. 7:51-52The Jews are again blamed for the death of Jesus. 10:39The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11The author of Acts brags about God destroying "seven nations of the land of Canaan." 13:19God chooses those who will believe [the right things], and only they will go to heaven. 13:48If you "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," then you and your whole family will be saved; otherwise, God will send you all to hell. 16:30-31"And when they [the Jews of Corinth] opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he [Paul] shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads." (Have a nice day?) 18:6 Romans"The wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 1:18-20Atheists have dark and foolish hearts. 1:21The existence and nature of God are self-evident; thus, unbelievers are "without excuse." 1:20God abandons those who don't know him to "uncleanness and vile affections." 1:24, 26, 28With his usual intolerance, Paul condemns homosexuals (including lesbians). This is the only clear reference to lesbians in the Bible. 1:26-28 Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32Paul asks the very good question: "Is there unrighteousness who taketh vengeance [upon innocent people]?" The obvious answer to this is, yes. 3:5Paul says that those who accuse him of lying deserve damnation. 3:8The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

It's difficult to imagine a more unjust system. 5:19

God gave the law so "that the offence might abound." 5:20Everyone is predestined by God to be either saved or damned; they can do nothing to affect their final destiny. 8:29-30No one can oppose Christians since God is on their side. 8:31"He that spareth not his own son" shouldn't be trusted by anyone. 8:32A Christian cannot be accused of any wrongdoing. 8:33God makes some people that are destined to go to heaven and others that will go to hell. There is nothing that they can do to change the will of God. Paul says that this is how it should be, saying: "What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known" damns most of mankind to eternal torments of hell for things they either didn't do or couldn't avoid doing? 9:11-22"Esau have I hated." 9:13"What shall be say then? Is their unrighteousness with God?" It sure looks like it! 9:14-22"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth." 9:18God blinded the Jews so they wouldn't recognize Jesus as the Messiah. 11:7-10"The powers that be are ordained of God." Whoever resists them will be damned. 13:1-4"He that doubteth is damned ... Whosoever is not of faith is sin." 14:23Shun those who disagree with your religious views. 16:17 1 Corinthians"I [God] will destroy the wisdom of the wise." 1:19Christians can judge everything and everybody, but no non-Christian can judge them. 2:15If you defile the temple of God, God will destroy you. 3:17Paul, judging from rumors alone, complains that there are fornicators among his followers in Corinth; he is even worried that some have had sex with their fathers' wives. He says that those who have done these things should be "delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" so that their soul can be saved. 5:1-5A believer should not sue another believer in court. 6:1-7"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?" 6:2Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10Slaves should not desire their freedom. 7:21Everything is lawful to Paul, and he submits himself to no law. 6:12, 10:23Paul quotes Dt.25:4, "Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn." That sounds like a nice humane law. Until Paul explains it, that is. He asks, "Does God care about oxen?", and then answers his own rhetorical question by saying, "Hell no. The law is for our sakes." 9:9-10Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll die from snake bites. 10:9If you murmur, you'll be destroyed by the destroyer (God). 10:10Those that "eateth and drinketh unworthily" will go to hell. 11:27Women are commanded by Paul to be silent in church and to be obedient to men. He further says that "if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church." 14:34-35Those who don't love Jesus are to be "anathema" (damned). 16:22 2 CorinthiansAll non-Christians are blind. They were blinded by God to prevent them from seeing the truth. 3:14-16"The god of this world" has blinded the minds of nonbelievers. 4:3-4Jesus, who was without sin, was made into sin. This made the real sinners sinless. 5:21Keep away from unbelievers. Neither marry nor be friends with them. 6:14-17Paul set an example for televangelists by robbing some churches. 11:8"Being crafty, I [Paul] caught you with guile." 12:16Paul says he "will not spare" when he comes back to punish those who have sinned. 13:2Are you a reprobate? Here's the test: if you know for sure that Jesus is in you, you're not a reprobate. Otherwise you are. 13:5 GalatiansIf anyone dares to disagree with Paul on religious matters, "let him be accursed." 1:8-9Those who try to follow the law are cursed 3:10Witches, idol worshippers, and heretics will not go to heaven. (Guess where they'll be going.) 5:20-21 EphesiansWe are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11God had his son murdered to keep himself from hurting others for things they didn't do. 1:7We are by nature "the children of wrath." 2:3Those who engage in "foolish talking" or "jesting" will not go to heaven. (Guess where they will be going.) 5:4-5No "unclean person" or "idolater" will inherit the kingdom of God. (They'll all be going to hell.) 5:5Slaves must obey their masters "as unto Christ." 6:5 PhilippiansEveryone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. 2:10-11 ColossiansGod bought us with someone else's blood. 1:14God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20Children should obey their parents "in all things." This verse must be a favorite for Christian parents who abuse their children. 3:20"Servants, obey in all things your masters." 3:22It's okay to own slaves, but you should try to treat them well. 4:1 1 ThessaloniansThe elect and the damned are predestined by God. 1:4God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10Paul accuses "the Jews" of killing Jesus, persecuting the prophets, displeasing God, and being "contrary to all men." He concludes that the wrath of God will "come upon them to the uttermost. 2:15-16 2 ThessaloniansJesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12God selects those who are to be saved (or damned) "from the beginning." It therefore makes no difference how good, kind, honest, or loving we may be; if god hasn't chosen us, we will be damned. 2:13Shun those who disagree with your interpretation of this epistle. 3:6, 14Those who will not or cannot work should starve to death. 3:10 1 Timothy"Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." Apparently (see 2 Tim.2:16-18 and 4:14-15) their "blasphemy" was disagreeing with Paul. 1:20Real widows are "desolate" and pray "night and day." But those widows that experience pleasure are "dead while [they] live." 5:5-6You should help a widow only if she 1) is over 60 years old, 2) had only one husband, 3) has raised children, 4) has lodged strangers, 5) has "washed the saints feet," 6) has relieved the afflicted, and 7) has "diligently followed very good work." Otherwise, let them starve. "But the younger widows refuse [to help]: for ... they will marry; having damnation." Besides the young widows are always idle tattlers -- "busybodies, spreading things which they ought not." He adds that "some are already turned aside after Satan." 5:9-15Publicly humiliate those who sin by announcing their sins in front of God and everybody so "that others may also fear." 5:20"Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed." 6:1 2 TimothyGod selected us to be either saved or damned, and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it. 1:9"If we deny him [Jesus], he will deny us." Fair is fair! 2:12Shun non-believers and other profane babblers. 2:16Hymenaeus and Philetus are condemned for disagreeing with Paul about the timing of the resurrection. (See 1 Tim.1:20 and 2 Tim.4:14-15) 2:17-18The devil can take us captive any time he pleases. 2:26God will "reward" Alexander for the "blasphemy" of disagreeing with Paul. (See 1 Tim.1:20 and 2 Tim.2:16-18) 4:14 TitusJews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." 1:10-11The people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies." 1:12Slaves must obey their masters and "please them well in all things ... showing all good fidelity." 2:9-10Heretics are to be rejected since they are subverted, sinners, and condemned by God. 3:10-11 PhilemonPaul returns the runaway slave, Onesimus, to his "rightful owner", Philemon. This was, of course, a great opportunity for Paul (and God) to condemn slavery -- if he (and God) had anything against it, that is. But he doesn't. Instead he returns the slave to his owner without a word against the institution of slavery. 1:12 HebrewsEvery skeptic and nonbeliever has "an evil heart of unbelief." 3:12It is impossible for fallen-away Christians to be saved. (Didn't the author know about confession or the finality of being saved?) 6:4-6God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature. 9:13-14, 22Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29Try to stay away from God because " it is a fearful thing to fall into" his hands. 10:31If you're not a Christian, it's impossible to please God. 11:6The Israelites kept the passover and sprinkled blood on doorposts so that God wouldn't kill their firstborn children (like he did the Egyptians in Exodus 12:29). 11:28God saved Rahab because she believed. (He killed all the non-believers in Jericho.) 11:31God always hurts the ones he loves. And if God doesn't hurt you, they you are a bastard, not a son. 12:6-8God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20 JamesIf you "keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, "you are guilty of all." 2:10If you are merciless to others, God will be merciless to you. (Two wrongs make a right.) 2:13James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God); Paul (Rom.4:2-3) says he was justified by faith (for believing that God would order him to do such an evil act). 2:21If your prayers are not answered, it's your own damned fault. 4:3Whoever is a friend of the world is an enemy of God. 4:4 1 PeterWe are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2"Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man."

Even unjust laws and dictators? 2:13

According to Peter, kings reign by divine right and everyone, therefore, should "honor the king." 2:17God drowned drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. 3:20Things may get rough for Christians, but it will really be hell for nonbelievers. 4:17-18 2 PeterGod drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6Lot, who in Gen.19:8 offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later (19:30-38) impregnates them, was a "righteous man." 2:8God knows how to punish those that "despise government." 2:9-10God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10 1 JohnEvery non-Christian is liar and an antichrist. 2:22, 4:2-3Christians are alive; non-Christians are dead. 5:12Christians are "of God;" everyone else is wicked. 5:19 2 JohnNon-Christians are deceivers and antichrists. 7Don't associate with non-Christians. Don't receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 10 3 JohnJohn says he "will remember his [Diotrephes] deeds ... pratting against us with malicious words." 10 JudeGod pre-ordained that certain "ungodly" men would deny Jesus. 1:4God destroys non-believers. 1:5 RevelationEveryone on earth will "wail because of him [Jesus]. 1:7False Jews are members of "the synagogue of Satan." 2:9"I [Jesus] will kill her children with death." 2:23Those who obey God/Jesus until the end will rule everyone else with an iron rod. They'll even get to smash the others into smithereens. 2:26-27God will make "the synagogue of Satan [that would be the Jews] ... come and worship before thy feet." (Whose feet? Well, the feet of Christians, of course!) 3:9"Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." God created predators, pathogens, and predators for his very own pleasure. One of his favorite species is guinea worms. 4:11God gives someone on a white horse a bow and sends him out to conquer people. 6:2God gave power to someone on a red horse "to take from the earth ... that they should kill one another." 6:4God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth." 6:8The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11God tells his murderous angels to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of your God on their foreheads." This verse is one that Christians like to use to show God's loving concern for the environment. But the previous verse (7:2) makes it clear that it was their God-given job to "hurt the earth and the sea" just as soon as they finished their forehead marking job. 7:3God sends his angels to destroy a third part of all the trees, grass, sea creature, mountains, sun, moon, starts, and water. 8:7-13"Many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." 8:11The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth, and scorpion's tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months. 9:7-10Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the earth's population. 9:15-19 Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. 11:3-5God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6When the witnesses ascend into heaven, an earthquake kills 7000 men. This was the second woe. "The third woe cometh quickly." 11:13-14The devil, after he is expelled from heaven, is sent down to earth to wreak havoc on its inhabitants. 12:12Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not "defiled with women.") 14:1-4Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11Seven angels with seven plagues are filled with the wrath of God. 15:1, 15:7The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3) rivers turned to blood, 4) people scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6) Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder, lightning, earthquake, and hail. 16:1-21Christians will fight in the war between Jesus and those allied with the beast. 17:14Jesus makes war. 19:11With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful into holy war. 19:12-15"Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21When the thousand years are over, God will send Satan to deceive us all. 20:7-8God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8"Dogs [homosexuals?], sorcerers, whoremongers, idolaters" and along with anyone who ever told a lie will not enter the heavenly city. 22:15

 

Cruelty in the New Testament

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Cruelty in the New Testament The second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.--Rev.16:3

 

But you ask me what the scariest things are in Christianity: this infatuation with biblical prophecy and this notion that Jesus is going to come back as an avenging savior to kill all the bad people. -- Sam Harris, Beliefnet inverview

MatthewThose who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19"The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46 MarkJesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16 LukeGod strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." 13:3, 5According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31 Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27Jesus also believes the story about Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27 JohnAs an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66 ActsPeter claims that Deuteronomy 18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-6The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23David was "a man after [God's] own heart." 13:22The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam.12:31 and 1 Chr.20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11 Romans Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12 1 CorinthiansIf you defile the temple of God, God will destroy you. 3:17Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll will die from snake bites. 10:9If you murmur, you'll be destroyed by the destroyer (God). 10:10 2 Corinthians (None)

 

Galatians (None)

 

Ephesians

We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11God had his son murdered to keep himself from hurting others for things they didn't do. 1:7The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God. 5:2Those who refuse to obey will face the wrath of God. 5:6 Philippians (None)

 

Colossians

God bought us with someone else's blood. 1:14God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20 1 ThessaloniansGod is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10 2 ThessaloniansJesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth." 2:8God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12 1 Timothy (None)

 

2 Timothy (None)

 

Titus (None)

 

Philemon (None)

 

Hebrews

God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature. 9:13-14, 22Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29The Israelites kept the passover and sprinkled blood on doorposts so that God wouldn't kill their firstborn children (like he did the Egyptians in Exodus 12:29). 11:28God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20 JamesIf you are merciless to others, God will be merciless to you. (Two wrongs make a right.) 2:13James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God); Paul (Rom.4:2-3) says he was justified by faith (for believing that God would order him to do such an evil act). 2:21 1 PeterWe are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2"The precious blood of Christ ... was foreordained before the foundation of the world."

God planned to kill Jesus from the get-go. 1:19-20

God drowned drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. 3:20 2 PeterGod drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10 1 JohnJesus' blood washes away human sin. 1:7 2 John (None)

 

3 John (None)

 

Jude

"The Lord destroyed them that believed not." 5 RevelationJesus "washed us ... with his own blood." 1:5Everyone on earth will wail because of Jesus. 1:7Jesus has "the keys of hell and death." 1:18Repent -- or else Jesus will fight you with the sword that sticks out of his mouth. (Like the limbless knight in Monty Python's "Holy Grail.") 2:16"I [Jesus] will kill her children with death." 2:23"Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." God created predators, pathogens, and predators for his very own pleasure. One of his favorite species is guinea worms. 4:11"Thou art worthy ... for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood." 5:9God gives someone on a white horse a bow and sends him out to conquer people. 6:2God gave power to someone on a red horse "to take from the earth ... that they should kill one another." 6:4God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth." 6:8The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11God tells his murderous angels to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of your God on their foreheads." This verse is one that Christians like to use to show God's loving concern for the environment. But the previous verse (7:2) makes it clear that it was their God-given job to "hurt the earth and the sea" just as soon as they finished their forehead marking job. 7:3144,000 Jews will be going to heaven; everyone else is going to hell. 7:4Those that survive the great tribulation will get to wash their clothes in the blood of the lamb. 7:14God sends his angels to destroy a third part of all the trees, grass, sea creature, mountains, sun, moon, starts, and water. 8:7-13"Many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." 8:11The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth, and scorpion's tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months. 9:7-10Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the earth's population. 9:15-19 Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. 11:3-5God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6After God's witnesses "have finished their testimony," they are killed in a war with a beast from a bottomless pit. 11:7Their dead bodies lie unburied for three and a half days. People will "rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts to one another." After another three and half days God brings his witnesses back to life and they ascend into heaven. 11:8-12When the witnesses ascend into heaven, an earthquake kills 7000 men. This was the second woe. "The third woe cometh quickly." 11:13-14"The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"

God planned to kill Jesus before he created the world. 13:8

Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11"The great winepress of the wrath of God ... was trodden ... and the blood cam out of the winepress, even unto the horses bridles." 14:19-20Seven angels with seven plagues are filled with the wrath of God. 15:1, 15:7The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3) rivers turned to blood, 4) people scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6) Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder, lightning, earthquake, and hail. 16:1-21God gave the saints and prophets blood to drink. 16:6"They shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire." (Are they going to eat her first and then burn her?) 17:16-17To punish her God will send plagues and famine, and "she will be utterly burned with fire." 18:8God will send plagues, death, and famine on Babylon, and the kings "who have committed fornication with her" will be sad to see her burn. 18:8-9Jesus makes war. 19:11With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful into holy war. 19:12-15"Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8

 

New Testament: Intolerance

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New Testament: Intolerance If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.--2 Kg.1:12

 

Christianity cannot live in peace with any other form of faith. -- Robert Ingersoll, Some Mistakes of Moses

MatthewWhile insulting the Pharisees and Sadducees, John the Baptist calls an entire generation a "generation of vipers." 3:7Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19"the children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12Jesus tells his disciples to keep away from the Gentiles and Samaritans, and go only to the Israelites. 10:5-6Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21"Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." 10:33Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24"He that is not with me is against me." 12:30"Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him." 12:31-32 Jesus often called people names. One of his favorites was to call his adversaries a "generation of vipers." 12:34Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50Jesus refuses to heal the Canaanite (Mk.7:26 says she was Greek) woman's possessed daughter, saying "it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to the dogs." 15:22-26The ever-so-kind Jesus calls the Pharisees "hypocrites, wicked, and adulterous." 15:2-3In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13Jesus condemns the Jews for being "the children of them which killed the prophets." 23:31Jesus blames his the Jews (who were then living) for "all the righteous blood" from Abel to Zecharias, 23:35The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41"His blood be on us, and on our children." This verse blames the Jews for the death of Jesus and has been used to justify their persecution for twenty centuries. 27:25 MarkJesus becomes angry at those who said that he had "an unclean spirit," so he announces the unforgivable sin: "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost." 3:29Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11Jesus initially refuses to cast out a devil from a Syrophoenician woman's daughter, calling the woman a "dog". After much pleading, he finally agrees to cast out the devil. 7:27If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16 LukeThose who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15Jesus says, "He that is not with me is against me." 11:23Those who "blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" will never be forgiven. 12:10God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30Jesus also believes the story about Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27 JohnPeople are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36John, with his usual anti-Semitism, says that the Jews persecuted Jesus and "sought to slay him." 5:16, 18John says that Jesus "would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." 7:1No one could speak openly about Jesus "for fear of the Jews." 7:13If you don't believe in Jesus, you will "die in your sins" (and then go to hell). 8:24Jesus calls his opponents (the Jews) the sons of the devil. 8:44Once again, "the Jews" are accused of trying to kill Jesus. 11:8If you don't believe in Jesus you are going to hell. 12:48Jesus is the only way to heaven. All other religions lead to hell. 14:6John blames the Jews for the death of Jesus. 19:7, 12, 14-15"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father."

If you follow Jesus' teachings, God will love you -- otherwise... well, you know. 14:21

Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6Now that Jesus has come, non-believers have no excuse for not believing in him. 15:22John, with his usual anti-Semitism, says that the disciples hid in locked room "for fear of the Jews." 20:19 ActsPeter blames the Jews for the death of Jesus. 3:14-15Peter claims that Dt.18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23God will torture forever those who don't know the password to heaven. 4:12Once again, Peter accuses the Jews of murdering Jesus. 5:30Stephen blames the Jews for persecuting the prophets and murdering Jesus. 7:51-52After Saul "increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews," the "Jews took counsel to kill him." 9:22-23The Jews are again blamed for the death of Jesus. 10:39Herod kills James the brother of John and imprisons Peter "because he saw it pleased the Jews." 12:1-3The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11The Jews of Antioch, after seeing Paul's success in preaching, were envious and blasphemed God. Paul then declares them to be "unworthy of everlasting life." 13:45-46Once again "the Jews stirred up" trouble and "raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts." 13:50"The unbelieving Jews" stir up trouble again for Paul and incite the people to try to stone him to death. 14:2-5In Thessalonica, "the Jews which believed not, moved with envy" stir up trouble for Paul and his friends. 17:5, 13"And when they [the Jews of Corinth] opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he [Paul] shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads." (Have a nice day?) 18:6"The Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat." 18:12The first Christian book burning occurs when Paul's converts at Ephesus burn 50,000 silver pieces worth of books. 19:19Poor Paul complains, once again, of being mistreated by "the Jews." 20:19The Jews, once again, incite the people to kill poor old Paul 21:27, 31The Jews form a grand conspiracy to kill Paul. They vow not to eat until the job is done. 23:12-15Claudius saves Paul from being killed by the Jews. 23:27Those pesky Jews caught Paul and and tried to kill him. But he got away. Darn! 26:21 Romans"The wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 1:18-20The existence and nature of God are self-evident; thus, unbelievers are "without excuse." 1:20Atheists have dark and foolish hearts. 1:21God abandons those who don't know him to "uncleanness and vile affections." 1:24, 26, 28With his usual intolerance, Paul condemns homosexuals (including lesbians). This is the only clear reference to lesbians in the Bible. 1:26-28 Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32Paul says that those who accuse him of lying deserve damnation. 3:8"He that doubteth is damned ... Whosoever is not of faith is sin." 14:23Shun those who disagree with your religious views. 16:17 1 CorinthiansChristians can judge everything and everybody, but no non-Christian can judge them. 2:15"Put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Stay away from "fornicators", "idolaters", and "drunkards". Do not associate, speak to, or eat dinner with such "wicked" people. 5:9-13

"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?" 6:2Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10Don't be an idolater. If you become one, God will make you sit down to eat and then rise up to play. 10:7Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8Gentiles sacrifice to devils. If you have gentile friends, then you are friends with devils. 10:20Those who don't love Jesus are to be "anathema" (damned). 16:22 2 CorinthiansAll non-Christians are blind. They were blinded by God to prevent them from seeing the truth. 3:14-16"The god of this world" has blinded the minds of nonbelievers. 4:3-4Keep away from unbelievers. Neither marry nor be friends with them. 6:14-17Christians cannot be freethinkers, since all their thoughts and imaginings must be brought into captivity in obedience to Christ. 10:5Paul says he "will not spare" when he comes back to punish those who have sinned. 13:2Are you a reprobate? Here's the test: if you know for sure that Jesus is in you, you're not a reprobate. Otherwise you are. 13:5 GalatiansIf anyone dares to disagree with Paul on religious matters, "let him be accursed." 1:8-9Those who try to follow the law are cursed 3:10"I would they were even cut off which trouble you." Gosh, that doesn't sound very nice. But I wonder what Paul meant by "cut off". The New Revised Standard Version translates this verse as: "I wish those who unsettle you would castrate themselves!" 5:12Witches, idol worshippers, and heretics will not go to heaven. (Guess where they'll be going.) 5:20-21 EphesiansNo "unclean person" or "idolater" will inherit the kingdom of God. (They'll all be going to hell.) Don't associate with them. 5:5-7Those who refuse to obey will face the wrath of God. 5:6 PhilippiansEveryone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. 2:10-11"Beware of dogs ... beware of the concision." I'm not sure who Paul is calling "dogs" here, but it's probably the Jews -- those of "the circumcision," as opposed to Christians, who are of the "true circumcision." 3:2 Colossians (None)

 

1 Thessalonians

God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10Paul accuses "the Jews" of killing Jesus, persecuting the prophets, displeasing God, and being "contrary to all men." He concludes that the wrath of God will "come upon them to the uttermost. 2:15-16 2 ThessaloniansJesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12Shun those who disagree with your interpretation of this epistle. 3:6, 14 1 Timothy"Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." Apparently (see 2 Tim.2:16-18 and 4:14-15) their "blasphemy" was disagreeing with Paul. 1:20Stay away from those who discuss important matters -- especially if they disagree with Paul. 6:5Paul instructs Timothy to avoid science, especially that which disagrees with him ("science falsely so called"). Other versions translate this phrase as "false knowledge", which may be more correct. However many fundamentalist Christians still use this verse ("science falsely so called") to justify their rejection of any idea, scientific or otherwise, they believe contradicts the bible. 6:20 2 Timothy"If we deny him [Jesus], he will deny us." Fair is fair! 2:12Shun non-believers and other profane babblers. 2:16Hymenaeus and Philetus are condemned for disagreeing with Paul about the timing of the resurrection. (See 1 Tim.1:20 and 2 Tim.4:14-15) 2:17-18"The Lord knoweth them that are his." This verse was used by the Catholic Church during the inquisition to justify killing those suspected of heresy. (Kill them all, for `the Lord knows them that are His'." ) 2:19God will "reward" Alexander for the "blasphemy" of disagreeing with Paul. (See 1 Tim.1:20 and 2 Tim.2:16-18) 4:14 TitusJews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." 1:10-11The people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies." 1:12Heretics are to be rejected since they are subverted, sinners, and condemned by God. 3:10-11 Philemon (None)

 

Hebrews

Every skeptic and nonbeliever has "an evil heart of unbelief." 3:12It is impossible for fallen-away Christians to be saved. (Didn't the author know about confession or the finality of being saved?) 6:4-6Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29If you're not a Christian, it's impossible to please God. 11:6The Israelites kept the passover and sprinkled blood on doorposts so that God wouldn't kill their firstborn children (like he did the Egyptians in Exodus 12:29). 11:28God saved Rahab because she believed. (He killed all the non-believers in Jericho.) 11:31 JamesWhoever is a friend of the world is an enemy of God. 4:4 1 PeterThings may get rough for Christians, but it will really be hell for nonbelievers. 4:17-18 2 PeterThe basic message of Christianity is "believe or be damned" and from this flows intolerance toward all non-Christians. But, as these verses show, Christian intolerance is often directed toward believers as well. Each group of Christians accuses the others of being "false teachers" of "damnable heresies" who will soon be damned to hell. 2:1-3God drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6God knows how to punish those that "despise government." 2:9-10God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7 1 John"Love not the world." 2:15Every non-Christian is liar and an antichrist. 2:22, 4:2-3Christians are alive; non-Christians are dead. 5:12Christians are "of God;" everyone else is wicked. 5:19 2 JohnNon-Christians are deceivers and antichrists. 7"Whosoever ... abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God." 9Don't associate with non-Christians. Don't receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 10 3 John (None)

 

Jude

God destroys non-believers. 1:5 RevelationFalse Jews are members of "the synagogue of Satan." 2:9Those who obey God/Jesus until the end will rule everyone else with an iron rod. They'll even get to smash the others into smithereens. 2:26-27God will make "the synagogue of Satan [that would be the Jews] ... come and worship before thy feet." (Whose feet? Well, the feet of Christians, of course!) 3:9The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11144,000 Jews will be going to heaven; everyone else is going to hell. 7:4The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not "defiled with women.") 14:1-4Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15All liars, as well as sorcerers, idolaters, and those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8"Dogs [homosexuals?], sorcerers, whoremongers, idolaters" and along with anyone who ever told a lie will not enter the heavenly city. 22:15

/spoiler]

 

Jeg regner med du mener at alle sitatene er tatt ut av kontekst, ikke stemmer, eller er feiltolket?

Jeg regner også med at du ikke kommer til å svare på denne posten, fordi du tror den er et angrep på deg, personlig. Det er den ikke. Jeg vil bare fremme min mening, med godt grunnlag, at den kristne gud ikke bare er "love".

 

Så hvis jeg, og de andre i tråden her ser at du nekter å svare for dette, så vet vi også hvor hjernevasket du er, hvis du ikke tør svare for de "svarte" sidene i Bibelen. Du kan ikke bare tro at de ikke eksisterer.

Endret 16. oktober 2008 av _Zeke

[____________]

Jeg har bare sett bittesmå glimt av lyset som kommer fra Gud, og den umiddelbare reaksjonen min når jeg får se dette er: "VIL HA MER!" Så det er egentlig alt jeg vet, at Gud er noe jeg vil ha mer av og at jeg vil leve hos han i evigheten og fortelle andre om han sånn at de også kan få se det samme.

Hvordan vet du at du ser den kristne gud?

Hva er "glimtene av lys" fra Gud? Evt. hvordan oppleves det?

 

Men nei, jeg kan ikke definere Gud. Han er mer enn hva et menneske kan definere.

Hvordan kom du fram til det?

 

(Bilde)

 

Jupp, la oss ofre noe til Amor og ønske det beste for oss alle?

[Gunfreak]

Nation states 2 har startet og fikk dette sprøsmålet

 

A small cult in the north of Gunfreak has called for recognition of their faith. The Spacentologists, worshipers of all manner of flying dishware, demands greater nationwide recognition

 

og her var en av alternativene man kunne velge

Ignore them," writes Reinhard Hawkins, well-known atheist, in Gunfreak Sun. "The state has no obligation pay attention to the demands of every ridiculous religion. In fact, I would go further and recommend that we attempt to educate the citizens of Gunfreak about atheism. Perhaps we can stifle the growth of these predatory cults.

 

 

Reinhard Hawkins, hvem kunne det være tro

[Lemkin]

Kom over dette sitatet fra Clifford Geertz nå som jeg sitter og stikker nesa nede i pensumlitteratur her, og syntes det var ganske godt:

 

Religion is a system of symbols which acts to establish powerful, pervasive and longlasting moods and motivations in men by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic.

[Thlom]

De sunnmørske mørkemenn (og kvinner) rir igjen:

 

Til kamp for bordbøna, smp.no. "Debatten" under artikkelen er artig, da kristenfolket mener at de ikke blir tolerert, at de blir mobbet og at noe som fremstår som en konspirasjon bestående av SV, Rødt, regjeringa og HEF ønsker å avkristne landet og forby religiøs praktisering i det offentlige rom.

[haalo]

Stakkars, får ikke dyttet troen sin på andre.

[Thlom]

Stakkars, får ikke dyttet troen sin på andre.

Jeg prøvde å opptre saklig i den debatten, men fikk bare drittpakker tilbake. Jeg er visst både SV-er, kommunist, sosialist, humanetiker, satanist, intolerant, mobber og det som verre er.

[Lemkin]

Stakkars, får ikke dyttet troen sin på andre.

Jeg prøvde å opptre saklig i den debatten, men fikk bare drittpakker tilbake. Jeg er visst både SV-er, kommunist, sosialist, humanetiker, satanist, intolerant, mobber og det som verre er.

 

 

[L4r5]

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?tit..._believe_in_god

^^50 grunner til å tro på gud.

... og motargumentene.

[Gunfreak]

denne siden må bare leses, utrolig festlig stoff, les spesielt siden om dinosaurene og ateisme

http://creationwiki.org/Main_Page

[Astralnoise]

Evidence to support this perspective includes:

1. The Bible specifically states that a breeding pair of every kind of animal came to the ark.

 

HAHA, her snakker vi ren empiri, dere!

[RWS]

Evidence to support this perspective includes:

1. The Bible specifically states that a breeding pair of every kind of animal came to the ark.

 

HAHA, her snakker vi ren empiri, dere!

 

Ja ikke sant?

 

Den ene artikelen forklarer hvorfor jorden bare er 6000 år og i den neste får vi vite hvorfor evolusjon IKKE har hatt nok tid på seg til å produsere oss i løpet av de 4,54 milliarder år vi har vært her på jorden... Horray!!!! Snakk om "Møte seg selv i døren" argumentasjon!

 

Toskete ignorante er vel det disse er... Det farlige er at det faktisk finnes de som er premietoskete nok til å tro på dette mølet...

 

For noen holder det bare å pute sutteklut guruen gud inn i det hele og da MÅ det være sant...

 

Trist at det finns så inn i granskauen ignorante mennesker... Men det er akkurat hva religion avler: ignoranse og stupiditet! To ord som står rett ved siden av religion i ordboken hvis du slår opp på siden som forklarer skikkelig dum.....

 

 

[Myagos]

Er dette en ekte side eller satire som herregud.com ?

[Leviath]

Er dette en ekte side eller satire som herregud.com ?

 

Tro det eller ei men den er ekte, mye er hentet fra talkorigins. Hvis du blar gjennom en del av påstandene vil du finne at de henviser til kilder, så det er faktisk reelle uttalelser hentet fra diverse kreasjonister. Det kan godt hende det har lurt seg inn en og annen påstand som neppe er seriøse, men det oppdager man fort dersom det mangler skikkelig kildehenvisning.