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Palestina vs Israel

Sonsol

Av Sonsol
i Politikk og samfunn

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#1: Brukere av forumet bes om å holde en høflig tone. Poster kan bli delvis eller fullstendig sensurert av moderatorer hvis de inneholder upassende språk som blant annet banning, flaming og/eller innlegg ment for å skape dårlig stemning. Tråder/poster åpenbart ment for å provosere eller støte andre stenges/slettes med begrunnelse. Dette gjelder også i private meldinger.

#2: Vær saklig og høflig når du argumenterer for noe. Dette gjør at andre oppfatter deg mer seriøst. Du får lov å mene hva du vil om en sak, men dersom dine meninger er svært kontroversielle bør du holde dem for deg selv for ikke å skape krangel.

https://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?act=SR&f=60#1

 

For diskusjonens del så oppfordres deltagerne i tråden på det sterkeste å holde seg til de punktene her.

 

Føler man at pulsen øker så er det en fordel å vente noen minutter før man skriver. TTT - Tenk, Trykk, Tal.

 

Reaksjon på dette innlegget skal ikke forekomme i tråden. Har man noen innvendinger så ta det på pm.

9155171[/snapback]

 

 

Dette gjelder fortsatt. Og når administrator redigerer, så er det ikke lurt å omgjøre det. (dette innlegget skal ikke kommenteres.)

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B_G

B_G

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Som du ser: Etter internasjonal press mot Israel. Trakk Israel nettopp alle ut av Gaza, og resultatet ble raketter, daglig, som presang..

 

Mao: Bosetterer er viktig for sikkerheten i Israel.

 

Jeg ser fortsatt ikke hva godt bosetterne gjør. Det oppstår stadig opptøyer mellom bosettere og palestinere, jeg mener dette heller bidrar til det motsatte av sikkerhet.

 

En ting til: Hva tror du skjer hvis det millitæret trekker seg ut, men bosetterne blir? Jo da tror jeg bosetterne er et lett bytte. Det jeg prøver å si er at det er det millitæret som står for overvåkingen, bosetterne er heller en granti for et lengere opphold på okkupert jord.

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Vaio

Vaio

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En ting til: Hva tror du skjer hvis det millitæret trekker seg ut, men bosetterne blir? Jo da tror jeg bosetterne er et lett bytte. Det jeg prøver å si er at det er det millitæret som står for overvåkingen, bosetterne er heller en granti for et lengere opphold på okkupert jord.

Si det til innbyggerene i Sderot... De er sikkert helt enig...

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Niskivara

Niskivara

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Det har faktisk vært flere anledninger der Israel har brutt fredsavtalene også. Så den får du ikke noe poeng for.

9157501[/snapback]

Påstand?

9157507[/snapback]

Ett eksempel.

 

Ett til eksempel.

 

Finnes langt flere. Mange er vel allerede vist til deg i denne eller forrige tråd.

 

Dette er ikke en ensidig konflikt der man har "de onde" på en side og "de gode" på den andre. Begge sider har gjort mye tull.

 

(PS! Første linken kan forvirre deg, i og med at overskriften er at " Hamas threatens to break ceasefire after Israeli air strikes", men den viktige delen av setningen er "... after Israeli air strikes". Husk atdet meste vestlig media er pro-Israel).

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Vaio

Vaio

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Last Updated: 2:02am BST 17/10/2006

 

....."Our policy is clear – we will deploy all our efforts to prevent rocket firings and this contraband," he said, indicating that this would include "ground and air attacks on terrorists and their infrastructure"..........

 

 

October 11, 2006

Israeli soldiers killed a militant who tried to infiltrate Israel from the northern Gaza Strip with an explosive belt. The militant was shot shortly after crossing the border fence south of the Karni crossing. [103]

 

[edit] October 12, 2006

Israeli soldiers operating in Gaza, under the cover of night, killed five members of the same family in a fierce gun battle. Four of them were armed Izz al-Din al-Qassam operatives, the fifth member of the family was a 13-year-old teen. At least 15 people were injured, including four who sustained serious wounds. The killed were identified as Abed Rahman Kadiah, 25, Salah Kadiah, 25, and Naeel Kadiah, 22, Adal Kadiah, 40, and Suhaib Kadiah, 13. [104] Hamas announces revenge and shoots six make-shift rockets into Israel.[105][106]

Another gunman, Mohammed Barakha, 23, was killed later Thursday as clashes raged into the afternoon. IDF troops opened fire on Barakha as he advanced toward them under cover of a large crowd. Gunmen opened fire at advancing troops and fired antitank missiles at IDF armored vehicles and tanks.

 

[edit] October 13, 2006

Three Hamas militants were killed while driving in a vehicle. The vehicle was hit by a single missile of the IAF, followed by a big explosion. This cell was responsible for firing Qassam rockets on Sderot a few days earlier this happened in the area of Beit Lahiya.

A woman was hit by a bullet while standing on her balcony. The IDF deny responsibility.

[107]

 

Three residents of Sderot are wounded by a Qassam rocket, 2 of them sustain light injuries, the other has moderate injuries. [108]

 

[edit] October 14, 2006

Four Hamas militants were killed when a house they were hiding in was hit by a series of Israeli missiles, security sources said. A fifth later died of his wounds. Three others were killed in separate raids. All seven were Hamas militants. At least 10 were wounded. The IDF said the incident began when an anti-tank missile was fired at an Israeli bulldozer. Troops responded with fire from the air and the ground. [109] [110] [111]

A gunman of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades was killed when IAF missiles struck the car in which he was travelling. Another gunman in the car was critically wounded and two passersby were also hurt, they said. An official said the two men had launched rocket attacks on Israel.[112][113] Israel says the offensive is designed to track down the kidnapped soldier and to stop militants firing rockets into Israel. A spokesman for Hamas's military wing issued a statement vowing "we will bombard and strike everywhere" in response to the attacks in Gaza. "Our reaction will be strong," spokesman Abu Ubaida said.

The home of a prominent Palestinian militant was destroyed by an Israeli air strike in Rafah on the border with Egypt. The IDF issued a warning before the strike and no one was killed or injured. An Israeli army spokeswoman told the French news agency AFP that the house "hid a tunnel used for arms smuggling."[114]

 

[edit] October 16, 2006

A Qassam rocket hits Sderot in the evening, one person is lightly injured. On the rocket in written in Hebrew Al-Qud's. An Islamic spokesman said they are dissatisfied Israel calls all rockets Qassam's, a name identified by the Izz ad-din al-Qassam brigades, but Islamic Jihad wants the credits for the attack, they said. .[115] 

 

Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->

Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->osv :whistle:

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B_G

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Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->

Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->osv

 

Det er en type ond sirkel ja.

 

Men videre okkupering kan ikke rettferdiggjøres. Jeg mener fortsatt at det ikke er noe å vinne i forhold til sikkerhet/fred når man bygger ulovlige bosetninger.

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Vaio

Vaio

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Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->

Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->osv  :whistle:

9157687[/snapback]

Og som jeg viste: Også omvendt.

 

Eller fornekter du det?

9157710[/snapback]

Tja.... Hvem angrep først etter evakueringen og under evakueringen?

 

Gaza Strip situation following Israeli withdrawal

In December 2006, news reports indicated that a number of Palestinians were leaving the Gaza Strip, due to political disorder and economic stagnation there.[5]

 

In January 2007, fighting continued between Hamas and Fatah, without any progress towards resolution or reconciliation. The worst clashes occurred in the northern Gaza Strip, where Gen. Muhammed Gharib, a senior commander of the Fatah-dominated Preventative Security Force, was killed when a rocket hit his home. Gharib's two daughters and two bodyguards were also killed in the attack, which was carried out by Hamas gunmen.[6]

 

At the end of January 2007, it appeared that a newly-negotiated truce between Fatah and Hamas was starting to take hold .[7] However, after a few days, new fighting broke out.[8] Fatah fighters stormed a Hamas-affiliated university in the Gaza Strip. Officers from Abbas' presidential guard battled Hamas gunmen guarding the Hamas-led Interior Ministry.[9]

 

In May 2007, the deal between Hamas and Fatah appeared to be weaker, as new fighting broke out between the factions. This was considered a major setback. [10] Interior Minister Hani Qawasmi, who had been considered a moderate civil servant acceptable to both factions, resigned due to what he termed harmful behavior by both factions. [11]

 

Fighting widened to several points in the Gaza Strip with both factions attacking vehicles and facilities of the other side. In response to constant attacks by rocket fire from the Gaza Strip, Israel launched an airstrike which destroyed a building used by Hamas. Some Palestinians said the violence could bring the end of the Fatah-Hamas coalition government, and possibly the end of the Palestinian authority. [12]

 

Hamas spokeman Moussa Abu Marzouk stated that Israel and the EU were to blame for the worsening situation. As the situation worsened and his government was on the verge of collapse, he indicated no acceptance of the idea that maybe the way to give the Palestinian people a better life is by working towards some form of mutual recognition and acceptance, instead of just continuing to call for more conflict and war. [13] Expressions of concerns were received from many Arab leaders, with many offering to try to help by doing some diplomatic work between the two factions. [14] One journalist wrote an eyewitness account stating:

 

Today I have seen people shot before my eyes, I heard the screams of terrified women and children in a burning building, and I argued with gunmen who wanted to take over my home. I have seen a lot in my years as a journalist in Gaza, but this is the worst it's been. [15]

 

 

Dagen etter full evakuering:

August 28: A Palestinian suicide bomber blows up outside a bus station in Beersheba, seriously wounding two security guards.

;)

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Vaio

Vaio

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Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->

Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->osv

 

Det er en type ond sirkel ja.

 

Men videre okkupering kan ikke rettferdiggjøres. Jeg mener fortsatt at det ikke er noe å vinne i forhold til sikkerhet/fred når man bygger ulovlige bosetninger.

9157739[/snapback]

Spørsmålet er: Var det virkelig okkuperingen som førte til terrorisme?

Eller ligger det med fundementalt/ekstrem ideologi bak løpet?

Litt for mye Allah kanskje:

 

Antisemitism

Antisemitism is a recurring theme in the Hamas Covenant.[65] Hamas' critics argue that Hamas is "full of hatred towards the Jews."[66] Critics also state Hamas is primarily anti-Zionist, but perceives Judaism as wholly embracing Zionism, and therefore has often failed to distinguish between the two.[67]

 

The Covenant cites The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the propagandist book falsely attributed to Jews, stating it embodies a "Zionist plan" for "limitless" territorial expansion:

 

Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"

 

Other examples in the Hamas Covenant include:

 

Introduction: Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and God's victory is realised.

 

Article 7: ... the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of God's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, God bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O slaves of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

 

Article 28: ... when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that "Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women." Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."[/B]

 

According to Robert Wistrich,

 

"Like other Islamists, the Hamas uses antisemitic language, full of hatred towards Jews, ever since its foundation in 1987. In its Sacred Covenant [18 August 1988], there are frequent references to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which would have gladdened the hearts of Hitler and Goebbels. It is difficult to see what any of this has to do with spirituality, works of charity, dialogue or the search for peace."[68]

 

Mao: Så lenge Israel eksistere, terrorismes "Heart will go on"..... Nesten som Titanic huh?

Endret av Vaio
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Vaio

Vaio

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Skrevet (endret)
..Siden bosetterene ble evakuert...

 

Det skyldes nok andre grunner som Niskivara har nevnt. Forklar meg hvordan bosetninger kan hindre slike angrep.

9157787[/snapback]

åja...nå er det nok andre grunner...mmm :hmm: Hva er det?

Endret av Vaio
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Niskivara

Niskivara

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Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->

Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->Hamas Angriper->Israel forsvarer->osv  :whistle:

9157687[/snapback]

Og som jeg viste: Også omvendt.

 

Eller fornekter du det?

9157710[/snapback]

Tja.... Hvem angrep først etter evakueringen og under evakueringen?

9157762[/snapback]

I begge eksemplene mine brøt Israel våpenhvilen, noe som viser klart at begge parter villig bryter våpenhviler, i sterk kontrast til det du prøvde å fremstille.

 

Så... en gang til... Benekter du at Israel også bryuter våpenhviler?

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Niskivara

Niskivara

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Skrevet
HAHA :lol:

Jada... Israel brøt våpenhvile med Lebanon...

Alle vet, nei, ALLE i verden vet! At det var ISRAEL SOM ANGREP FØRST...

 

Dessverre...

9158419[/snapback]

Det er ikke lett å tolke deg når du skriver såpass useriøse svar. Betyr det at du erkjenner at Israel også har brøte våpenhviler med både Libanon og Hamas(Og forsåvidt tidligere med PLO og Hezbollah)?

 

Bryter Israel våpenhviler, ja eller nei?

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