Er det både fri vilje og ondskap i himmelen?

[kjetil02]

Har forresten vanskelig for å tro at så mange er så utabile at de klarer å innbille seg noe slikt.

 

"As I sat and gazed upon the surrounding hills gently sloping to an inland sea, a feeling of peace came over me. It soon grew to a blissful stillness that silenced my thoughts. In an instant, the sense of being a separate self—an “I” or a “me”—vanished. Everything was as it had been—the cloudless sky, the pilgrims clutching their bottles of water—but I no longer felt like I was separate from the scene, peering out at the world from behind my eyes. Only the world remained.

 

The experience lasted just a few moments, but returned many times as I gazed out over the land where Jesus is believed to have walked, gathered his apostles, and worked many of his miracles. If I were a Christian, I would undoubtedly interpret this experience in Christian terms. I might believe that I had glimpsed the oneness of God, or felt the descent of the Holy Spirit.But I am not a Christian.

 

If I were a Hindu, I might talk about “Brahman,” the eternal Self, of which all individual minds are thought to be a mere modification. But I am not a Hindu. If I were a Buddhist, I might talk about the "dharmakaya of emptiness" in which all apparent things manifest. But I am not a Buddhist.

 

As someone who is simply making his best effort to be a rational human being, I am very slow to draw metaphysical conclusions from experiences of this sort. The truth is, I experience what I would call the “selflessness of consciousness” rather often, wherever I happen to meditate—be it in a Buddhist monastery, a Hindu temple, or while having my teeth cleaned. Consequently, the fact that I also had this experience at a Christian holy site does not lend an ounce of credibility to the doctrine of Christianity.

 

There is no question that people have “spiritual” experiences (I use words like “spiritual” and “mystical” in scare quotes, because they come to us trailing a long tail of metaphysical debris). Every culture has produced people who have gone off into caves for months or years and discovered that certain deliberate uses of attention—introspection, meditation, prayer—can radically transform a person’s moment to moment perception of the world. I believe contemplative efforts of this sort have a lot to tell us about the nature of the mind."

 

Kilde: Selfless Consciousness Without Faith, av nevrologen og humanisten Sam Harris.

 

Konklusjon: "Åndelige" opplevelser kan alle ha, men ikke alle kaller dem "å høre guds stemme" el.l.

 

Om ikke du med sikkert kan fortelle oss hvordan universet ble til, og samtidig bevise at Bibelen overalt tar feil, så kan du ikke si at å tro er totalt ufornuftig.

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Man kan med sikkerhet si at bibelen tar feil i skapelsesberetningen. Man trenger ikke å bevise hele bibelen feil for det.

Endret 21. april 2007 av kjetil02

[Fredrik-]

Om ikke du med sikkert kan fortelle oss hvordan universet ble til, og samtidig bevise at Bibelen overalt tar feil, så kan du ikke si at å tro er totalt ufornuftig.

Jo, man kan faktisk si at det er ufornuftig å tro på gud bare fordi man ikke kan motbevise guds eksistens. Det er en irrasjonell og ulogisk tankegang.

 

Analogien med den kinesiske tekannen er et godt og enkelt forståelig eksempel på hvorfor.