PS3 Blu Ray vs Xbox 360 HD-DVD vs DVD

[lektroluv]

The sub-$200 HD DVD player arrives: multiple retailers slashing prices

[Knebel]

Blu-ray Mounts Event Offensive

 

(10/30/2007)

THOMAS K. ARNOLD

 

The gloves are off. Backers of the high-definition Blu-ray Disc format are staging a two-day offensive in Hollywood this week, touting their triumphs and offering previews of upcoming releases such as Cars, Ratatouille, the “Die Hard” movies, Dirty Dancing and Spider-Man 3 to a crowd of more than 50 influential print and online journalists.

 

The event, which concludes Tuesday, could be seen as a guns-blazing pre-emptive strike against the rival HD DVD camp, which almost simultaneously got a boost from Wal-Mart and other retailers, which reportedly began selling HD DVD players for just less than $200. That is expected to give the HD DVD format a significant boost, particularly in the wake of Paramount Home Entertainment’s defection several weeks ago from the Blu-ray side.

 

The so-called “Blu-ray Festival” coincides with the launch of a new branding and consumer education campaign, with the tagline “I Do Blu,” that premiered Oct. 28 during the final game of the World Series.

 

Both the campaign and the festival, the latter orchestrated by Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment, underscore growing sentiments, backed by research, that consumers are largely indifferent to high-definition discs and turned off even more by the presence of two incompatible formats.

 

To combat this, Blu-ray backers are stepping up the rhetoric and courting the press, particularly the new vanguard of online Web sites, bloggers and discussion boards that cater to the early adopters who historically have set trends the masses have followed.

 

“It’s a great idea,” said Ron Epstein, a founder of the Home Theater Forum, which is celebrating its 10th anniversary. “The early adopters are all on the Internet — that’s where they find their information. And there’s a certain brand new, just happened element.”

 

“These are the people who are regularly covering technological advances in home entertainment,” said Steve Feldstein, SVP of marketing and corporate communications for 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment. “They are at the forefront of the format, as are their readers.”

 

Representatives of all the Blu-ray-exclusive studios — Lionsgate, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment and Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment — were in attendance at the Monday morning opening breakfast, as were key executives with supporting consumer electronics manufacturers such as Sony, Philips and Panasonic.

 

Also there was Dan Silverberg, VP of high-definition media for Warner Home Video, which since Paramount’s move to the HD DVD camp is the only studio to support both next-generation formats.

 

That may not be for long, Silverberg said. “One thing that may be changing is our strategy,” he said. “When both formats launched and hardware prices were high, we made a decision to support both formats and let the consumer decide. But now that hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD, it appears consumers no longer want to decide — so the notion of staying in two formats for the duration is something we are re-evaluating now that we are in the fourth quarter.”

 

Silverberg noted that Warner has the top-selling Blu-ray title of all time with 300 and is consistently No. 1 or No. 2 in both Blu-ray sales market share and in number of Blu-ray titles in the market.

 

“We can definitely talk Blu-ray,” he said. “We are committed to the format.” At the Monday morning kickoff, the featured speaker was David Berman, director of Home Theater Specialists of America (HTSA), a buying consortium of 62 dealers and 800 installers with combined revenue of more than half a billion dollars a year. He said the HTSA supports Blu-ray because a member survey found 92% favoring Blu-ray over HD DVD.

 

The press was given a fact sheet of more statistics and Blu-ray milestones, including the fact that even in a week in which Transformers came out on HD DVD and with no comparable title in its lineup, Blu-ray Discs still managed to outsell discs in the rival format. So far this year, Blu-ray titles have outsold HD DVD titles by a 2-to-1 margin. Since inception, Blu-ray software sales have accounted for 61% of high-def disc software sales. And 17 of the 20 top-selling high-definition disc titles are available on Blu-ray.

 

There also were indications that the Blu-ray camp is done playing nice. At the entrance to the opening breakfast, at the Hollywood and Highland complex, was a huge blowup of a Deadline Hollywood article by renegade online columnist Nikki Finke. The article raised questions about Paramount Home Entertainment’s claim that it sold 190,000 copies of Transformers on HD DVD in a single week.

 

Later in the day, on the 20th Century Fox lot, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment president Mike Dunn blasted Paramount for its defection, accusing the studio of “taking the bait,” referring to a reported $50 million payout to drop its support of Blu-ray Disc and release titles exclusively in HD DVD.

 

Dunn also intimated that the format war is being perpetuated by Microsoft in the hopes of confusing consumers so much they don’t support either format and ultimately buy their entertainment online. He didn’t name the computer giant by name, but blasted “the orchestrated campaigns of confusion and anti-consumerism fueled by an 800-pound gorilla that would prefer to force us all into the practice of paying tolls for the right to exchange information and enjoy entertainment.”

 

Fox also previewed several Blu-ray Disc titles still in development, including I, Robot, Independence Day and Sunshine, which will be released early next year and boast picture-in-picture, audio mixing and other groundbreaking interactive features.

 

http://www.allthingshidef.com/ME2/dirmod.a...0CA27EC8B38B463

[lektroluv]

Kmart Dumps Blu-ray Due to Price

 

Kmart has decided not to carry Blu-ray players due to their high prices, instead focusing solely on HD DVD this holiday. While it may no longer be the bastion of discount stores it once was, Kmart's move highlights the problems facing Sony's format as HD DVD continues to get cheaper.

 

The HD DVD Promotions Group said that Kmart's decision to go exclusive wasn't related to an end-cap purchase (where vendors can buy specific shelf space and lock out competitors), but rather because the cost of Blu-ray players are more tailored to home theater enthusiasts. HD DVD meanwhile, will have players under $200, with even deeper discounts after Thanksgiving.

 

As previously reported by BetaNews, both Wal-Mart and Circuit City began offering the Toshiba A2 player for just under $200. The A2 only offers 1080i output, but most new televisions can do 1080i-to-1080p conversions better than players anyway, and firmware upgrades keep it as up to date as current Toshiba HD DVD players.

 

Amazon.com has followed suit by also offering the A2 for $197, and other retailers are expected to make the same price drop from the player's original $299 price point. Best Buy is now selling the A2 for $179. However, it's not clear how long A2 stock will last, as it has been replaced by Toshiba's A3 player.

 

Buy.com, meanwhile, has an impressive deal on the HD DVD add-on for Microsoft's Xbox 360. Normally retailing for $179, Buy.com is offering a bundle priced at $164 which includes Season 1 of Heroes on HD DVD, which normally costs at least $70 on its own.

 

Surprisingly, Sears may have the best deal of the season, although it only lasts for part of the day after Thanksgiving. Shoppers can pick up the new Toshiba A3 for just $169. The offer includes 7 free HD DVD movies, with 2 in the box and 5 available through a mail-in offer.

 

But there's still quite a bit of uncertainty when it comes to high-definition DVDs, and consumers may be leery about picking a side even with such deals. In addition, HD DVD and Blu-ray discs are still quite a bit more expensive than standard DVDs at retail, although online stores such as Amazon offer slightly lower prices on movies.

[kilik]

Ah, dette blir tøft for blu-ray. Tror de må ned på $299 før jul for billigste standalone-spiller for å ikke gi fra seg ledelsen. Ps3 til $399 med Spiderman 3 vil nok hjelpe en del.

 

Den HD DVD-greia til X360 virker rimelig dyr nå som man får standalone-spillere til samme prisen.

[lektroluv]

Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player: $100, this Friday, Wal-Mart

 

Still waiting to jump into the high def disc game? Or just wanted another weaker, cheaper player for the last-gen TV you phased out to your rumpus room? Well, whatever your reasons, some (not all!) Wal-Mart locations will be selling Toshiba HD-A2s for $100 -- down from $200 -- this Friday. Ridiculous, we know. Blu-ray gonna fight back? We hope so, we'd really like to get our hands on one for under $300, and not just by using our hookup that sells gear out of his trunk, you know?

 

Link

 

Nå er det like før jeg flytter til USA

[kilik]

540 kroner ja. Er et stykke til vi er der i Norge.

 

Ta med at man får tilsendt 5 HD DVD-filmer i posten også...

[kewell79]

Warner Lets Their Blu-ray License Expire?!

 

 

Reports are circulating that Warner Brothers' Blu-ray license expired last night, October 31st, and that they have not renewed it! This would be a very clear signal that they may not continue support of Blu-ray releases. No confirmation is yet forthcoming, but speculation is rife that an official decision may be forthcoming from Warner before the end of the year. It is said that Warner is very interested in seeing the sales of HD DVD players at their new price points starting at $198 at various retailers such as Circuit City, Walmart, Best Buy and many more. Tomorrow, Walmart also runs a half-day sale on Toshiba A2 players at an incredible $99! After the "Blu-ray Convention" this week, Blu-ray Hydra posters on almost all the online forums started posting rumours that Warner said they "favoured" Blu-ray - but this was met by an almost IMMEDIATE denial by Warner, who said reports of their statements at the Blu-ray convention were taken "WAY OUT OF CONTEXT" in terms of their stance towards the Blu-ray format - nothing new for the Hydra posters who continue to fabricate "news" for the format.

 

En mail jeg fikk fra www.CampaignHD.com

[Knebel]

Lurer på hvor man kan finne denne "IMMEDIATE denial"'en fra Warner. De gjorde det ihvertfall ikke ved å sende ut en pressrelease.. De er ikke flink til å linke kildene sine den gjengen der. Blir temmelig løs FUD av sånt dersom man ikke konkretiserer påstandene.

 

Her er forøvrig visstnok hva som ble nektet på i etterkant:

Warner Considering Blu Exclusivity

 

Warner Bros. At the Blu-ray Festival earlier this week, Dan Silverberg, VP of High-Definition Media for Warner Home Video, revealed that Warner may have to re-evaluate their neutral position regarding high definition releases. He commented, "Now that hardware pricing is affordable for both Blu-ray and HD DVD, it appears consumers no longer want to decide - so the notion of staying in two formats for the duration is something we are re-evaluating now that we are in the fourth quarter."

 

If there is any doubt as to which format Warner would support, he pointed out the huge sales of '300' on Blu-ray, and further commented, "We are committed to the format."

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=640

[Brakara]

Huge sales? Haha, morsomt. Det var vel bare en liten brøkdel av DVD salget.

[Hewitt]

"Huge sales" i HD-skala da selvsagt. Ingen som sammenligner HD-salget med DVD-salget selvsagt, det blir skivebom.

[kewell79]

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6498141.html

 

 

Toshiba HD-A2 model sells 90,000 over weekend

[Dr.Peedee]

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6498141.html

 

 

Toshiba HD-A2 model sells 90,000 over weekend

 

Yes, og pluss at A3 modellen også har fått redusert pris og solgt bra, selv om tallene der ikke foreligger ennå. Ser ut som de ønsker å feste grepet på julesalget nå.

[lektroluv]

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-war/the-...+ray-320077.php

 

Sier litt om hvor uferdig Blu-ray standarden egentlig er.

[Knebel]

Vel, det er ikke bare bakdeler med å ha standarder i steg slik som BD standarden har. En ting er sikkert, selv om den ikke har så mye dilldall i utgangspunktet, vil den større kapasiteten gi potensiale for å kjøre større bitrate ved mindre bildekompresjon enn HD DVD. Det begynner allerede å vise seg. Et eksempel er denne karens statistikk over testscorer:

http://dvdfile.com/index.php?option=com_co...6&Itemid=11

[lektroluv]

Vel, det er ikke bare bakdeler med å ha standarder i steg slik som BD standarden har.

 

Ok. Hva er fordelene da?

 

En ting er sikkert, selv om den ikke har så mye dilldall i utgangspunktet, vil den større kapasiteten gi potensiale for å kjøre større bitrate ved mindre bildekompresjon enn HD DVD. Det begynner allerede å vise seg. Et eksempel er denne karens statistikk over testscorer:

 

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Jos...s._Reality/1096

 

Kanskje ikke så sikkert alikevel?

 

og

 

Speaking of firmware, we had our hopes pegged on the PS3's 2.00 software update for adding 1.1 capability, but just this AM, we were sorely disappointed. Nevertheless, word on the street is that the PS3 still just needs a software update to activate 1.1. The current lineup of Sony Blu-ray players, on the other hand, can never reach it, with or without firmware update.

 

Vet ikke om jeg vil kalle det "dilldall"?

[Knebel]

Kapasitet = mindre behov for komprimering = bedre bildekvalitet sammen med bedre kodek.

 

Trodde ikke den logikken var så forferdelig vanskelig? Man kan vende og vri og analysere og herje på, men uansett vil man komme til det at ukomprimert >>>>>>> komprimert. Her har BD en fordel.

 

Dilldall er alt det ekstramaterialet som folk flest gir seg svarten i. Interessant for enkelte entusiaster ja, men for de fleste er det nok noe de sjelden kikker på.

 

Jeg ofrer gjerne det som er av ekstramateriale for bedre billed og lyd kvalitet..

 

EDIT: Jeg må få legge til at det er underlig at HD DVD ikke selger flere filmer i og med at de har så mye flott ekstramateriale, PIP, ferdig standard og greier på platene sine? De selger jo tross alt dobbelt så mange spillere, og vel så det som Blu-Ray i eksempelvis USA? Sist jeg så etter solgte fremdeles BD plater dobbelt så mye som HD DVD plater.

Endret 9. november 2007 av Fhj

[lektroluv]

Kapasitet = mindre behov for komprimering = bedre bildekvalitet sammen med bedre kodek.

 

Trodde ikke den logikken var så forferdelig vanskelig? Man kan vende og vri og analysere og herje på, men uansett vil man komme til det at ukomprimert >>>>>>> komprimert. Her har BD en fordel.

 

*EDIT* Det blir uansett non issue når 51gb diskene til HD DVD kommer*EDIT*

Uansettt..

Merker i alle fall at du ikke leste den artikkelen jeg nettopp postet. Jeg får dra noen utdrag fra den her da:

 

As far as I'm concerned, Sony's decision to incorporate a bit rate meter in their PS3 Blu-ray player is one of the worst things to have ever happened to the home theater hobby. Because of that one seemingly-innocuous and frequently-inaccurate data display, now just about anyone, no matter how technologically ignorant, can believe themselves to be experts in the field of video reproduction, based on nothing more than whether their bit rate meters read a high number or a low one -- as if that number were even relevant. The whole point of video compression is to squeeze a High Definition picture into as little space as possible. A compressionist who's maintained a high-quality picture with a low bit rate has done an excellent job, but that's a point lost on most consumers, who assume that a good picture needs a high bit rate, regardless of what they actually see on their TV screens. The bit rate alone is a meaningless statistic and says nothing about the quality of the compression work. It is equally possible to create a lousy video image with a high bit rate, or a great image with a low bit rate, depending on the complexity of the content and how well the work is done.

 

This misconception has reached such heights of absurdity that certain viewers have started petitions demanding that Warner Bros. stop using the same video encodes on HD DVD and Blu-ray, and instead "maximize" the bit rates on their Blu-ray releases if the extra disc space is available. But for what purpose? Video compression doesn't work on a linear scale. Using advanced codecs like VC-1 and AVC, there are diminishing returns above a certain point, and throwing more bits at a picture that doesn't require them accomplishes nothing more than to make the meter number go up. As time goes on, compression tools and techniques become more efficient, requiring even less space to achieve visual transparency to the original master. Warner Bros. has many times over demonstrated outstanding results within the 30 gb limit of HD DVD, even on very long films such as the 'Troy: Director's Cut', a movie that runs 3 1/2 hours and yet fits comfortably on a 30 gb disc with beautiful picture quality, despite also squeezing in a lossless Dolby TrueHD audio track and a bunch of supplements. So what if the Blu-ray edition has an extra 20 gb of space available? Are we watching the movie or watching the bit rate meter? If there were no bit rate meter, would anyone have a legitimate basis to complain?

 

 

 

Dilldall er alt det ekstramaterialet som folk flest gir seg svarten i. Interessant for enkelte entusiaster ja, men for de fleste er det nok noe de sjelden kikker på.

 

Jeg ofrer gjerne det som er av ekstramateriale for bedre billed og lyd kvalitet..

 

Så hvis ekstramaterialet forsvant, da ville HD DVD vært bra nok for deg da?

 

 

EDIT: Jeg må få legge til at det er underlig at HD DVD ikke selger flere filmer i og med at de har så mye flott ekstramateriale, PIP, ferdig standard og greier på platene sine? De selger jo tross alt dobbelt så mange spillere, og vel så det som Blu-Ray i eksempelvis USA? Sist jeg så etter solgte fremdeles BD plater dobbelt så mye som HD DVD plater.

 

Er vel her jeg skal si "jeg syntes det er underlig at Blu-ray ikke selger mer siden de har flere potensielle spillere ute på markedet", men film-salgstall har ikke så mye å si (enda).

Transformers solgte mer de første dagene den var ute enn Blu-ray sin top-selger (300) har gjort i hele sin eksistens. Det sier sitt om hvor lite salgstall har å si.

Endret 9. november 2007 av lektroluv

[Dr.Peedee]

Vel, det er ikke bare bakdeler med å ha standarder i steg slik som BD standarden har. En ting er sikkert, selv om den ikke har så mye dilldall i utgangspunktet, vil den større kapasiteten gi potensiale for å kjøre større bitrate ved mindre bildekompresjon enn HD DVD.

 

Så det at de har 50gb lagringsplass og høyere bitratemulighet er det som gjør at det ikke bare er bakdeler å innføre BD gradvis og forvirre forbrukerne med "uferdige" spillere? Jeg falt av lasset hva som er sammenhengen mellom disse to tingene.

 

Å si at BD 1.1/2.0 tilleggene er "dilldall" er helt feil. Det er ingen grunn til å bagatellisere dette.

[thomassit0]

Men for de som bare vil se selve filmen og ikke er så interessert i PiP osv, hva er det de tilleggene faktisk tilbyr ?

[kewell79]

Why HD DVD costs less than Blu-ray

 

 

http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/v...cleid=985000801