Ye Olde Pub (The English Pub)

[Nguyen]

Yes, but in the US things are literally bigger. Bigger food portions and such. That's all I meant. I was half joking anyways.

[jjkoggan]

Yes, but in the US things are literally bigger. Bigger food portions and such. That's all I meant. I was half joking anyways.

You are talkin in relative terms but the beer was advertised at the local level, not comparing Scandinavian beer to american beer. Also, big taste is not about physical size .

 

The real issue is the fact that the Danish marketer would actually claim to "probably " be the best. This would get most American advertising agencies fired for just proposing such an idea. This means that either Danes value modesty or it was a big mistake. Since it was a major beermaker (Carlsberg) I doubt it was a mistake , rather an assessment that boasting would negatively impact sales, implying superiority was the better option.

[jjkoggan]

Most Norwegians aren't quick to boast about their own skill-levels, but we're usually quite quick about boasting about Norwegians and Norway. We're quite fond of our little piece of land and culture, one might say.

 

Many times the nationalistic boasting smacks of an inferiority complex, kind of like the short man complex. In my opinion you have much to be proud of, but as far as expecting other nations to follow your model and succeed.... I think your culture and circumstance would rarely apply outside of scandinavia. There is a naivete amongst the Norwegians that I know and talk to, not all societies or cultures would respond to a generous welfare state in the same way. It requires a compliant, law abiding nature not present in many places.

[Slimda]

According to a TED-talk I just saw, the less difference there is between poor and rich, the more people trust each other.

I found that rather interesting, and could be something for you too to listen to. Japan are also quite similar to scandinavia when it comes to general trust between the populace in the country.

 

Richard Wilkinson - TED

[jjkoggan]

According to a TED-talk I just saw, the less difference there is between poor and rich, the more people trust each other.

I found that rather interesting, and could be something for you too to listen to. Japan are also quite similar to scandinavia when it comes to general trust between the populace in the country.

 

Richard Wilkinson - TED

 

 

A democratic society must initially have sufficient trust just to allow redistribution of income. Giving from the wealthy Sunni to the poorer Shiites is neither politically possible, nor likely to increase trust in any significant way. Differences in race, language, culture and religion are difficult to bridge even in the face of generous income redistribution since segregation and animosity are the natural tendencies of those who are different from each other. One only need to see the statistics on immigrants in Scandinavia to know that the welfare state is under threat in many ways, even with relatively low numbers of immigrants. THe segregation, flight from minority areas, increased crime, rise of anti immigration sentiment, increased unemployment, poverty has already begun, even with very modest heterogeneity. Ole doesn't mind sharing his wealth with Knut who he expects might be down on his luck but because he is norwegian will try not to be a burden for too long, is reluctantly supporting Omar and Mohammed who he feels doesn't speak Norwegian and doesn't care about working. Engugh Omar and Mohammeds will weaken income redistribution and also put extreme financial burdens on the system itself.

[Slimda]

Immigration is a huge problem that needs solving, but the current government doesn't seem to be willing to take the steps necessary in order to do so.

 

But that doesn't change the facts of the TED-talk. That's just another layer we have to fight through, either through assimilating them or throwing them head-first out of the country.

[jjkoggan]

The point is that the system doesn't function very well when a population is diverse and does not posess aculture that believes the strong should sacrifice for the weak. This way of thinking is ingrained in Norwegian culture, but is repulsive to other cultures. It also requires that each citizen attempt to be productive and not take advantage of the generosity of others. If there are large segments of the population that can't or won't do that the system collapses.

Endret 26. oktober 2011 av jjkoggan

[Nguyen]

is reluctantly supporting Omar and Mohammed who he feels doesn't speak Norwegian and doesn't care about working.

Are Omar and Mohammed citizens?

either through assimilating them or throwing them head-first out of the country.

Exactly how much would one be required to assimilate?

 

This way of thinking is ingrained in Norwegian culture, but is repulsive to other cultures

Which other cultures would you say find it repulsive? Endret 27. oktober 2011 av Nguyen

[Slimda]

Exactly how much would one be required to assimilate?

Until they themselves consider themselves to be Norwegian. Probably not possible in the generation that moves, but the next generation might be taught correctly.

[Anarkhos]

Yes, but in the US things are literally bigger. Bigger food portions and such. That's all I meant. I was half joking anyways.

You are talkin in relative terms but the beer was advertised at the local level, not comparing Scandinavian beer to american beer. Also, big taste is not about physical size .

 

The real issue is the fact that the Danish marketer would actually claim to "probably " be the best. This would get most American advertising agencies fired for just proposing such an idea. This means that either Danes value modesty or it was a big mistake. Since it was a major beermaker (Carlsberg) I doubt it was a mistake , rather an assessment that boasting would negatively impact sales, implying superiority was the better option.

 

This is how a Norwegian soda labeled itself in a PR stunt:

 

[jjkoggan]

Until they themselves consider themselves to be Norwegian. Probably not possible in the generation that moves, but the next generation might be taught correctly.

 

This is unlikely to happen as long as being Norwegian is narrowly defined as not allowing hybridization of ethnicities. If I moved to Norway I ought to be allowed to honor my past and present and mix my customs and habits as long as they fit within the law. My grandfather loved his mother England and his adopted USA. He celebrated both British and American holidays and taught us to be fascinated with his birthplace and customs, because that was who he was, a wonderful mixture of language and culture and also AUTHENTICALLY. AMERICAN, he had love for two, not just one nation.

[jjkoggan]

Yes, but in the US things are literally bigger. Bigger food portions and such. That's all I meant. I was half joking anyways.

You are talkin in relative terms but the beer was advertised at the local level, not comparing Scandinavian beer to american beer. Also, big taste is not about physical size .

 

The real issue is the fact that the Danish marketer would actually claim to "probably " be the best. This would get most American advertising agencies fired for just proposing such an idea. This means that either Danes value modesty or it was a big mistake. Since it was a major beermaker (Carlsberg) I doubt it was a mistake , rather an assessment that boasting would negatively impact sales, implying superiority was the better option.

 

This is how a Norwegian soda labeled itself in a PR stunt:

 

Yes, when you market outside your culture you better pay attention to the culture you are selling to. Probably being good won't cut it very well outside scandinavia.

[Anarkhos]

There is some speculation that the whole stunt was aimed at the Norwegian market, because they actually have no plans to sell their soda in the U.S.

 

Though there is nothing unusual at about superlatives in Norwegian commercials. From the top of my head, 'Fisherman's friend' commercials used the slogan 'Strongest there is'. Many products will mention that they were found to the best after testing ("best i test"), if some test carried out by someone else gave them the best score.

 

Now, I don't have a TV, so I am a bit rusty when it comes to (Norwegian) TV commercials (TV used to be my main exposure to commercials) - but I don't think you'll find that they are particularly modest.

[jjkoggan]

There is some speculation that the whole stunt was aimed at the Norwegian market, because they actually have no plans to sell their soda in the U.S.

 

Though there is nothing unusual at about superlatives in Norwegian commercials. From the top of my head, 'Fisherman's friend' commercials used the slogan 'Strongest there is'. Many products will mention that they were found to the best after testing ("best i test"), if some test carried out by someone else gave them the best score.

 

Now, I don't have a TV, so I am a bit rusty when it comes to (Norwegian) TV commercials (TV used to be my main exposure to commercials) - but I don't think you'll find that they are particularly modest.

 

Jante law is more pertinent to people than things so using superlatives on products is more OK than people who boast about their achievements and high status. Interviews show that scandinavians are more reluctant to boast about their achievements than americans. There are very few Muhammad Alis who shout about how much better they are without negative consequences in scandinavia.

[Moraelyn]

I like to think that norwegians are more based in fact than they are in fantasy, only saying as much as they are prepared to prove. Seems to me like integrity.

 

As an american who sees a beer advertisement on television, where the brewer claims to be "The Best", that claim is automatically dismissed by the viewer as marketing gibberish and no more thought is given to it. A norwegian brewer making such a claim in Norway, has to be prepared to back it up with statistical data. "Truth in advertising" is regarded highly in Norway.

[jjkoggan]

I like to think that norwegians are more based in fact than they are in fantasy, only saying as much as they are prepared to prove. Seems to me like integrity.

 

As an american who sees a beer advertisement on television, where the brewer claims to be "The Best", that claim is automatically dismissed by the viewer as marketing gibberish and no more thought is given to it. A norwegian brewer making such a claim in Norway, has to be prepared to back it up with statistical data. "Truth in advertising" is regarded highly in Norway.

 

I agree that so much boasting and exageration goes on in american advertising that it renders it somewhat meaningless but I don't agree that truth in advertising is not valued in the USA. THe USA is the most litigious societies in the world and distortions without data make every company a target. THe little guys may get away with such nonsense but the larger businesses tread lightly lest they be attacked by competitors without backup data.

 

Your statements also lead to the impression that Norwegians wish to be more accurate than they wish to exagerate their ambitions. THis all fits in with Jante law culture.

 

Are you a norwegian american? Did you watch game six of the world series?

[Moraelyn]

I am an american looking forward to becoming a norwegian (two more years). I'll gladly adopt norwegian culture as my own, if given the chance.

 

I haven't been interested in baseball since I was teen, in Illinois. That was twenty years ago.

[jjkoggan]

I am an american looking forward to becoming a norwegian (two more years). I'll gladly adopt norwegian culture as my own, if given the chance.

 

I haven't been interested in baseball since I was teen, in Illinois. That was twenty years ago.

 

I tried the same thing at one point in my life but norwegian immigration policy didn't allow it. There are many advantages to the norwegian society that I fell in love with. Extrapolating this unique culture broadly to the rest of the world would be a mistake though, something I don't think many norwegians understand thoroughly.

[Moraelyn]

I'm not technically an immigrant. When my wife & I got married, we had to choose: The US or Norway. Looking back, we most certainly made a wise decision. I can't even imagine asking her to give up freedom, and this life, to move to the US. I will retain dual citizenship though. Perhaps after things change and I can be proud of the States again, I'll reconsider the option, but nothing short of revolution will affect those changes. And that means never.

[jjkoggan]

I'm not technically an immigrant. When my wife & I got married, we had to choose: The US or Norway. Looking back, we most certainly made a wise decision. I can't even imagine asking her to give up freedom, and this life, to move to the US. I will retain dual citizenship though. Perhaps after things change and I can be proud of the States again, I'll reconsider the option, but nothing short of revolution will affect those changes. And that means never.

 

You married a Norwegian? What are your particular grievances against your homeland? Do you believe the essential nature of american culture has changed? What freedom would your wife give up in america? I work with several scandinavian immigrants who say they will give up some freedoms to go back home.