Futuremark truer [H]ardOCP over 3DMark

[C4STOR]

3DMark Makers Upset with [H]:

Tero Sarkkinen, Executive Vice President of Sales and Marketing of Futuremark, wrote in this morning with a directive for HardOCP to stop slandering their 3Dmark product line and threatens to bring in lawyers. I do have to think that this is a shot across our bow as surely ATI and NVIDIA have told Futuremark about recent interviews we have done with the video giants in preparation for an upcoming HardOCP editorial.

 

I strongly advise you to not to slander our product, 3DMark, on your web site. Take down all your false and unjustified and baseless claims about 3DMark.

 

Sincerely,

 

Tero Sarkkinen

Executive Vice President of Sales and Marketing

Futuremark Corporation

[email protected], http://www.futuremark.com

 

As is normal operating procedure, we like to be specific as to what exactly the company wants removed. So I responded, " I have reviewed the document that you sent (Tero sent a 15 page PDF that was a reproduction of today's HardOCP news page in full (possibly a copyright violation in itself News Image)) and see no slanderous, false, unjustified, or baseless claims whatsoever about "3DMark." Could you please be more specific as to your allegations and advice?

 

Tero replied with...

 

You know what I mean. Your articles have consistently discredited 3DMark for years now and the few justifications there have sometimes been have been without merit. It seems to us as if you have something against our product personally and are using your popular website as a platform to attack and trying to discredit on purpose and with baseless claims and sometimes also with erroneous information.

 

I will no longer communicate with you after this. Our attorney is looking that this situation will get resolved and will contact you if necessary.

 

Tero Sarkkinen

Executive Vice President of Sales and Marketing

Futuremark Corporation

[email protected], http://www.futuremark.com

 

"You know what I mean," was hardly the answer I expected. But just remember that having an opinion these days means having a band of high priced lawyers at your side.

 

I do stand by the opinion that 3DMark05 "sucks" as a benchmark based on the fact that it does not tell me anything specifically about the games I play. Did 3DMark tell us how DOOM3 was going to play? No. Will 3DMark tell us how HL2 or STALKER will play on a given system? No. Does that mean 3DMark is worthless? Surely not. 3DMark has a ton of great and fun uses; I just don't find any of them as a benefit to our readers or myself directly. On that note, the entire 3DMark series can be a great tool for end users testing tweaks and such on their systems and it can be a great source of fun competition across the Net.

 

Our editorial on the state of 3DMark will be published soon, and I guess this one will be another that we have to pay the lawyers to read before it goes out the door. But if Futuremark thinks their baseless threats and attacks on our opinions will gain them ground with the hardware community, or us they are badly mistaken.

 

And Tero, I know you guys are not Americans, so you might want to catch up with The United States Constitution and specifically the First Amendment to it. I guarantee you that HardOCP is very much inside its legal rights to express opinions about your products and will continue to do so. What amazes me is that you are stepping on some of the very toes that Futuremark relies on to make its money, and those toes belong to the gaming and hardware communities that we share the truth with on a daily basis. Now take our advice. You are barking up the wrong tree little doggy.

http://www.hardocp.com/index.html

 

Tåpelig av Futuremark å sutre fordi de får litt kritikk. Såpass får de tåle. 3DMark er jo som [H]ardOCP hevder, ikke stort annet enn et fint leketøy for folk å tweake og benchmarke med. Som en ytelsestest i spill så har den jo ikke allverdens av verdi

Endret 6. oktober 2004 av C4STOR

[Stig-Arne]

haha..

Nei vettu hva, de svarene og påstandene fra futuremark styrker iallefall ikke dere seriøsitet hoss meg.. for den er veldig lav allerede.. og ennå lavere nå..

[HilRam]

Hehe, er det noen Futuremark ikke har kranglet med? Jeg husker når 3D Mark 03 kom ut, da kranglet de med Tom's Hardware og Nvidia.

 

Kanskje Futuremark tror de kan bruke samme trikset mot HardOCP som Nvidia gjorde mot dem: True med advokater. Nvidia truet jo Futuremark fordi futuremark rett ut anklaget Nvidia for å jukse med driveroptimaliseringene sine.

 

Futuremark har nok "gjort på leggen" her, jeg ser Kyle fortsatt er fin i farta i saken mot Infinium Labs...

[simes]

Dette var jo bare.... latterlig? "You know what I mean" tok nesten kaka..

[TDK]

Totalt latterlig av Futuremark.

 

HardOcP har vel lov og si sin mening om saken sålenge den er begrunnet?

[hallgeirl]

Jaja, futuremark får slite med saken..

Dette var rett og slett tåpelig synes jeg... ihvertfall det med at de ikke ville spesifisere HVA de faktisk ikke likte. Ikke det at det hadde gjort saken noe bedre, da folk i de fleste land har noe så fint som heter ytringsfrihet (ja, til og med USA har det.. litt ihvertfall )

[Merlin]

Totalt latterlig av Futuremark.

 

HardOcP har vel lov og si sin mening om saken sålenge den er begrunnet?

Indeed de kan si hva de vil, nå føler jeg bare hat mot Futuremark

 

And Tero, I know you guys are not Americans, so you might want to catch up with The United States Constitution and specifically the First Amendment to it. I guarantee you that HardOCP is very much inside its legal rights to express opinions about your products and will continue to do so. What amazes me is that you are stepping on some of the very toes that Futuremark relies on to make its money, and those toes belong to the gaming and hardware communities that we share the truth with on a daily basis. Now take our advice. You are barking up the wrong tree little doggy.

Genialt svart av Kyle

Endret 7. oktober 2004 av Merlin

[emacoolit]

Man kan jo tolke utspillet til Tero som om han føler at 3DMark ikke lenger klarer å stå på egne ben, og at han må forsvare det personlig. Det er forståelig i forhold til hvor mye arbeid som sikkert er lagt ned i det, men det er jo urealistisk å tro at alle mennesker som jobber med data til daglig vil trykke 3DMark til sitt bryst.

[blackbrrd]

Totalt latterlig av Futuremark.

 

HardOcP har vel lov og si sin mening om saken sålenge den er begrunnet?

Indeed de kan si hva de vil, nå føler jeg bare hat mot Futuremark

 

And Tero, I know you guys are not Americans, so you might want to catch up with The United States Constitution and specifically the First Amendment to it. I guarantee you that HardOCP is very much inside its legal rights to express opinions about your products and will continue to do so. What amazes me is that you are stepping on some of the very toes that Futuremark relies on to make its money, and those toes belong to the gaming and hardware communities that we share the truth with on a daily basis. Now take our advice. You are barking up the wrong tree little doggy.

Genialt svart av Kyle

Vel...

 

I know you guys are not Americans, so you might want to catch up with The United States Constitution and specifically the First Amendment to it

 

Den kommentaren der kunne han godt ha spart seg for synes nå jeg... Det er ikke akkurat som USA er landet med minst strenge lover på ting&tang... Holdningen "USA ER BEST" går an å få en smule opp i vrangstrupen.

 

Hva FutureMark driver på med her skjønner jeg ikke... *rister på hodet*

[Merlin]

Totalt latterlig av Futuremark.

 

HardOcP har vel lov og si sin mening om saken sålenge den er begrunnet?

Indeed de kan si hva de vil, nå føler jeg bare hat mot Futuremark

 

And Tero, I know you guys are not Americans, so you might want to catch up with The United States Constitution and specifically the First Amendment to it. I guarantee you that HardOCP is very much inside its legal rights to express opinions about your products and will continue to do so. What amazes me is that you are stepping on some of the very toes that Futuremark relies on to make its money, and those toes belong to the gaming and hardware communities that we share the truth with on a daily basis. Now take our advice. You are barking up the wrong tree little doggy.

Genialt svart av Kyle

Vel...

 

I know you guys are not Americans, so you might want to catch up with The United States Constitution and specifically the First Amendment to it

 

Den kommentaren der kunne han godt ha spart seg for synes nå jeg... Det er ikke akkurat som USA er landet med minst strenge lover på ting&tang... Holdningen "USA ER BEST" går an å få en smule opp i vrangstrupen.

 

Hva FutureMark driver på med her skjønner jeg ikke... *rister på hodet*

Dette har ikke noe med at U.S.A er "best" men det har noe med at i U.S.A så gjleder de lover som står i den amerikanske grunnloven, det er dette Kyle påpeker her siden Tero er finsk og da gjelder amerikanske regler. Hvorvidt denne kommentaren var nødvendig eller ikke er opp til hver enkelt, men jeg synes ikke det er noe galt med den. Det er Tero som anklager HardOCP for noe som ikke er galt i det hele tatt, nemlig ytringsfrihet.

[viranth]

Det ser alltid dumt ut når en "sjef" kommer med slike uttalelser, har sett det før og det setter alltid selskapet i dårlig lys.

 

Om en webside kommer med slike uttalelser så spiller det ingen rolle, men når en person kommer med slike trusler vil folk flest normalt stille seg bak websiden som sier akkurat det den mener.

[HilRam]

Hehe, sjekk HardOCP nå. Tero har offisielt trukket tilbake trusselen, og bedt Kyle og HardOCP om unnskyldning.

 

Han har nok innsett at det ikke var det lureste han gjorde, nei. Han sier også ja takk til konstruktiv og velbegrunnet kritikk. Kanskje vi skal ta han på alvor?

 

* maile Tero *

[Vice]

Nei dette var jo håpløse greier fra Futuremark sin side. 3DMark er og blir en gimmick, intet mer. Trusler eller ei.

[Ozelot]

..og jeg som trodde Nvidia var den store stygge ulven...

[HilRam]

Mailen jeg skrev til [email protected]:

 

Dear Tero.

 

"If you make a mistake, and don't do anything to set it straight, you make a second mistake!"  -Old Chinese saying

 

I read on HardOCP's pages that you have withdrawn your threats of legislasive action. Good to see that you are a man who can admit your mistakes, and do something about it. I can, however, understand your frustration of the massive, and often unfair critisism that 3D Mark is being exposed to. For years, 3D Mark has been the coolest benchmark around, and when '03 finally came out, i stayed overtime at work to wait for the download to finish, so I could burn it and take it home. I couldn't wait another day. At the time I had a brand new computer, and it is so cool to se what your hardware can do, and nice to have it maxed out for once, when you know your PC kicks ass...

 

I very much welcome your invitation to constructive critisism, and will delightfully contribute to (possibly) improve my favourite and most often used benchmark. I think one of the reasons for all the hammering on 3D Mark is that reviewers are provoked by the slogan "The Gamer's Benchmark". In some ways I agree to this critic - many of the tests in a 3D Mark run do not really resemble a gaming experience.

 

Some of the game tests are just "fancy eye-candy" that show us what can be done using the latest shaders and techniqes etc. And this is what makes 3D Mark fun! I already know how the existing titles perform on my PC, and I don't give a penny for knowing how many hundreds of frames per second I can get if I play Quake 3 at 640*480. It is simply not interesting. (My 2 cents to Tom's.)

 

What I would know from a 3D benchmark is how well my PC will be able to run future games ("Futuremark - get it?" ;-) as well as being able to compare it to other systems. (Read: Ditch my friends..;-)

 

What I do not like about 3D Mark:

 

1. It doesn't show how CPU power affects games. The CPU tests consist of turning off the built in hardware-accelleration of the graphics card, and making the CPU calculate the shaders etc. NO GAME DOES THIS! Even though my PC has (OK, used to have...) a cutting edge graphics card and a fairly good processor too, there are still games that makes it "lag" - because of the CPU-load. What a CPU does during an intensive game is AI and physics calculation. You were on the right track in 3D Mark 03 with the "ragtroll"-sequence. Disappointingly, there was nothing that involved the Havoc 2-engine in 3D Mark 05.

 

My advise: Scrap the current CPU-tests, and give us a couple of reeeeally heavy physics-calculations, preferrably involving water, explosions and the reaction of different surfaces. This should be CPU-test 1. Then you could give us a test from for instance an RTS, with hundreds of enemies on each side charging each other. (With intelligent AI programming behind it.) This could be CPU test 2. Finally, when the CPU tests are valid, they should count more on the overall 3D Mark score.

 

2. It doesn't really take advantage of the latest advancements in graphics technology. Althoug PS 3.0 is supported in 3D Mark 05, it doesn't utilize its potential. A friend of mine who has a 6800GT and plays FarCry a lot, said he got a 10 - 15% improvement when he installed DX 9.0C and the PS 3.0 patch. Nor does 3D mark support ATI's latest texture-compression technology. These technologies will (i predict) be crucial in upcoming games.

 

3. It doesn't test OpenGL performance. The difference between 3D Mark results and Quake 3 Benchmarks - no need to say more.

 

Maybe the solution for 3D Mark is to license some technologies /engines from popular game makers. Then 3D Mark will for sure return as being "The Gamer's Benchmark".

 

I hope you will read this and think about my suggestions, as they are well intended.

 

Yours sincerly