Krigen mellom Israel og Hamas

[robertaas]

!,7 millioner med afghansk opprinnelse skal nå utvises fra Pakistan. Mange har bodd flere generasjoner i Pakistan og de fleste er antagelig født der. Men jeg er ganske sikker på at det ikke blir demonstrasjonstog, trusler mot pakistanere eller redaktører som forteller om hvor forkastelig dette folket er.

Endret 6. november 2023 av robertaas

[Opsat500]

robertaas skrev (10 minutter siden):

!,7 millioner med afghansk opprinnelse skal nå utvises fra Pakistan. Mange har bodd flere generasjoner i Pakistan og de fleste er antagelig født der. Men jeg er ganske sikker på at det ikke bli bli demonstrasjonstog, trusler mot pakistanere eller redaktører som forteller om hvor forkastelig dette folket er.

Det er snakk om illegale innvandrere. De vil egentlig til Europa, men har ikke kommet seg lengre enn til Pakistan foreløpig. 
 

[0laf]

Cascada81 skrev (3 timer siden):

Det er noe unyansert å si at alle ble kastet ut av arabiske land. 

Tja, egentlig ikke.

"Until the 1960s, approximately one million Jews lived in Iran and other Arab countries having arrived in the region more than 2,000 years before. Nowadays, it is estimated that only around 15,000 remain, as the majority of the Jewish population in Muslim lands were forced to flee their homes in the years following the establishment of the State of Israel.

After the Arabs rejected the United Nations decision to partition Palestine and create a Jewish state, the Jews of the Arab lands became targets of their own governments’ anti-Zionist fervor. As Egypt’s delegate to the UN in 1947 chillingly told the General Assembly: “The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries will be jeopardized by partition.” The dire warning quickly became the brutal reality.

Throughout 1947 and 1948, Jews in Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Syria, and Yemen (Aden) were persecuted, their property and belongings were confiscated, and they were subjected to severe anti-Jewish riots instigated by the governments. In Iraq, Zionism was made a capital crime. In Syria, anti-Jewish pogroms erupted in Aleppo and the government froze all Jewish bank accounts. In Egypt, bombs were detonated in the Jewish quarter, killing dozens. In Algeria, anti-Jewish decrees were swiftly instituted and in Yemen, bloody pogroms led to the death of nearly 100 Jews.

With their lives in danger and the situation growing ever more perilous, the Jews of the Arab World fled their homes as refugees. 

There is ample evidence that this conduct against Jews was orchestrated in tandem as a joint effort of all the involved Arab countries. Among the events preceding the expulsion were:
(a) The drafting of a Law by the Political Committee of the Arab League that recommended a coordinated strategy of repressive measures against Jews;
(b) strikingly similar legislation and discriminatory decrees, enacted by numerous Arab governments, that violated the fundamental rights and freedoms of Jews resident in Arab countries;
(c) statements made by delegates of Arab countries at the U.N. during the debate on the ‘Partition Resolution’, representing a pattern of ominous threats made against Jews in Arab countries; and
(d) newspaper reports from that period. 

Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, more than 200,000 found refuge in Europe and North America while 586,000 were resettled in Israel - at great expense to the Israeli government, and without any compensation from the Arab governments who had confiscated their possessions.

Another major forced migration took place from Iran in 1979–80, following the Iranian Revolution and the collapse of the shah’s regime, adding 70,000 more Jewish refugees to this number. 

The majority of the Jewish refugees left their homes penniless and destitute and with nothing more than the shirts on their backs. These Jews, however, had no desire to be repatriated in the Arab World and little is heard about them because they did not remain refugees for long"

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries

[Camlon]

1 hour ago, Opsat500 said:

Det er snakk om illegale innvandrere. De vil egentlig til Europa, men har ikke kommet seg lengre enn til Pakistan foreløpig. 

Pakistan er ikke på vei til Europa fra Afghanistan og Robertaas snakket om folk som har bodd flere generasjoner i Afghanistan.

Hvor hentet du egentlig denne informasjonen fra?

[Ekspertkommentator]

On 5.11.2023 at 6:11 AM, no u said:

Her er det i hvert fall et eksempel på en pappa som er takknemlig for at hans datter ble drept i stedet for å bli et gissel i Gaza.

Irsk-Israelske Emily Hand 8 fra kibbutz Beeri var opprinnelig antatt drep av Hamas. Nå sier Israel at Emily Hunt trolig er blandt gislene i Gaza.

In a Facebook post three days ago, Tom Hand (Emilys father) said that the mother of his two older children had been “definitely murdered” by Hamas. Emily’s reported death, he said, had been “an identity mistake”.

[0laf]

 

[Ekspertkommentator]

7 hours ago, 0laf said:

 

Dessverre kommer ikke all denne rikdommen fra hardt og ærlig arbeid men klassisk mafia virksomhet. Han og mange andre Hamas ledere ble rik på bekostning av befolkningen i Gaza som måtte betale "skatt" på varer og tjenester. En "skatt" rett i lomma på de få. Et system vi ser i mange muslimske land. Situasjonen med Fatah på Vestbredden er ikke noe bedre.

Ismail Hanyeh was appointed prime minister of the Palestinian Authority in the Gaza Strip, and his wealth rapidly grew thanks to the control that he and other ministers in the Hamas government exerted over the Gazan economy and the taxes they levied on goods imported into the Strip from Egypt. 

Senior Hamas figures, including Haniyeh, would levy a 20 percent tax on all of the trade passing through the tunnels, according to a 2014 report in Ynet, an Israeli news site. 

A senior PA official alleged that the tunnel-smuggling market had transformed 1,700 senior Hamas officials into millionaires, according to a report in Saudi weekly Al-Majalla.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-from-gaza-hardships-hamas-chief-and-family-enjoy-easy-life-in-qatar/

Endret 6. november 2023 av Ekspertkommentator
typo

[lada1]

4 hours ago, Ekspertkommentator said:

Dessverre kommer ikke all denne rikdommen fra hardt og ærlig arbeid men klassisk mafia virksomhet. Han og mange andre Hamas ledere ble rik på bekostning av befolkningen i Gaza som måtte betale "skatt" på varer og tjenester. En "skatt" rett i lomma på de få. Et system vi ser i mange muslimske land. Situasjonen med Fatah å¨Vestbredden er ikke noe bedre.

Ismail Hanyeh was appointed prime minister of the Palestinian Authority in the Gaza Strip, and his wealth rapidly grew thanks to the control that he and other ministers in the Hamas government exerted over the Gazan economy and the taxes they levied on goods imported into the Strip from Egypt. 

Senior Hamas figures, including Haniyeh, would levy a 20 percent tax on all of the trade passing through the tunnels, according to a 2014 report in Ynet, an Israeli news site. 

A senior PA official alleged that the tunnel-smuggling market had transformed 1,700 senior Hamas officials into millionaires, according to a report in Saudi weekly Al-Majalla.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-from-gaza-hardships-hamas-chief-and-family-enjoy-easy-life-in-qatar/

Denne blandingen av styresett/diktatur, korrupsjon og mafia-virksomhet i store deler av verden bør kanskje identifiseres som den største sikkerhets-utfordringen som vi har.  

[Cascada81]

0laf skrev (5 timer siden):

Tja, egentlig ikke.

"Until the 1960s, approximately one million Jews lived in Iran and other Arab countries having arrived in the region more than 2,000 years before. Nowadays, it is estimated that only around 15,000 remain, as the majority of the Jewish population in Muslim lands were forced to flee their homes in the years following the establishment of the State of Israel.

After the Arabs rejected the United Nations decision to partition Palestine and create a Jewish state, the Jews of the Arab lands became targets of their own governments’ anti-Zionist fervor. As Egypt’s delegate to the UN in 1947 chillingly told the General Assembly: “The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries will be jeopardized by partition.” The dire warning quickly became the brutal reality.

Throughout 1947 and 1948, Jews in Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Syria, and Yemen (Aden) were persecuted, their property and belongings were confiscated, and they were subjected to severe anti-Jewish riots instigated by the governments. In Iraq, Zionism was made a capital crime. In Syria, anti-Jewish pogroms erupted in Aleppo and the government froze all Jewish bank accounts. In Egypt, bombs were detonated in the Jewish quarter, killing dozens. In Algeria, anti-Jewish decrees were swiftly instituted and in Yemen, bloody pogroms led to the death of nearly 100 Jews.

With their lives in danger and the situation growing ever more perilous, the Jews of the Arab World fled their homes as refugees. 

There is ample evidence that this conduct against Jews was orchestrated in tandem as a joint effort of all the involved Arab countries. Among the events preceding the expulsion were:
(a) The drafting of a Law by the Political Committee of the Arab League that recommended a coordinated strategy of repressive measures against Jews;
(b) strikingly similar legislation and discriminatory decrees, enacted by numerous Arab governments, that violated the fundamental rights and freedoms of Jews resident in Arab countries;
(c) statements made by delegates of Arab countries at the U.N. during the debate on the ‘Partition Resolution’, representing a pattern of ominous threats made against Jews in Arab countries; and
(d) newspaper reports from that period. 

Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, more than 200,000 found refuge in Europe and North America while 586,000 were resettled in Israel - at great expense to the Israeli government, and without any compensation from the Arab governments who had confiscated their possessions.

Another major forced migration took place from Iran in 1979–80, following the Iranian Revolution and the collapse of the shah’s regime, adding 70,000 more Jewish refugees to this number. 

The majority of the Jewish refugees left their homes penniless and destitute and with nothing more than the shirts on their backs. These Jews, however, had no desire to be repatriated in the Arab World and little is heard about them because they did not remain refugees for long"

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries

Det hjelper jo ikke for argumentets del å klippe og lime sionistisk propaganda fra WJC, på engelsk. Faktafeilene starter uansett i første setning: "one million Jews lived in Iran and other Arab countries". Iran er ikke et arabisk land, men et eget land med eget språk og egen kultur. Kilden skiller heller ikke mellom årsak/virkning. Arabiske land protesterte mot opprettelsen av staten Israel på palestinsk jord. At jøder skulle forlate sine hjemland for å slutte opp om det sionistiske prosjektet, er sterkt underkommunisert. 

"These Jews, however, had no desire to be repatriated in the Arab World". Palestinerne som er fordrevet fra sine hjem, ønsker derimot å flytte tilbake. At opprettelsen av Israel krevde etnisk rensing av store deler av Palestina er selvfølgelig ikke nevnt med et ord.

[Rhabagatz]

6 hours ago, 0laf said:

Tja, egentlig ikke.

"Until the 1960s, approximately one million Jews lived in Iran and other Arab countries having arrived in the region more than 2,000 years before. Nowadays, it is estimated that only around 15,000 remain, as the majority of the Jewish population in Muslim lands were forced to flee their homes in the years following the establishment of the State of Israel.

After the Arabs rejected the United Nations decision to partition Palestine and create a Jewish state, the Jews of the Arab lands became targets of their own governments’ anti-Zionist fervor. As Egypt’s delegate to the UN in 1947 chillingly told the General Assembly: “The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries will be jeopardized by partition.” The dire warning quickly became the brutal reality.

Throughout 1947 and 1948, Jews in Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Syria, and Yemen (Aden) were persecuted, their property and belongings were confiscated, and they were subjected to severe anti-Jewish riots instigated by the governments. In Iraq, Zionism was made a capital crime. In Syria, anti-Jewish pogroms erupted in Aleppo and the government froze all Jewish bank accounts. In Egypt, bombs were detonated in the Jewish quarter, killing dozens. In Algeria, anti-Jewish decrees were swiftly instituted and in Yemen, bloody pogroms led to the death of nearly 100 Jews.

With their lives in danger and the situation growing ever more perilous, the Jews of the Arab World fled their homes as refugees. 

There is ample evidence that this conduct against Jews was orchestrated in tandem as a joint effort of all the involved Arab countries. Among the events preceding the expulsion were:
(a) The drafting of a Law by the Political Committee of the Arab League that recommended a coordinated strategy of repressive measures against Jews;
(b) strikingly similar legislation and discriminatory decrees, enacted by numerous Arab governments, that violated the fundamental rights and freedoms of Jews resident in Arab countries;
(c) statements made by delegates of Arab countries at the U.N. during the debate on the ‘Partition Resolution’, representing a pattern of ominous threats made against Jews in Arab countries; and
(d) newspaper reports from that period. 

Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, more than 200,000 found refuge in Europe and North America while 586,000 were resettled in Israel - at great expense to the Israeli government, and without any compensation from the Arab governments who had confiscated their possessions.

Another major forced migration took place from Iran in 1979–80, following the Iranian Revolution and the collapse of the shah’s regime, adding 70,000 more Jewish refugees to this number. 

The majority of the Jewish refugees left their homes penniless and destitute and with nothing more than the shirts on their backs. These Jews, however, had no desire to be repatriated in the Arab World and little is heard about them because they did not remain refugees for long"

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries

Dette sitatet er, gitt kilden, kun egnet til å kaste lys over offermentaliteten som preger Israel.

Det er altså null evne eller vilje til å reflektere over at opprettelsen av Israel, som ble vedtatt i en ikke-bindende resolusjon der 30 land i Europa og Amerika, to i Afrika og ett i Asia besluttet å gi bort halve Palestina til den jødiske minoriteten, stikk i strid med alle demokratiske prinsipper, førte til en humanitær katastrofe av historiske dimensjoner for palestinere.

Derimot trekker man frem den påfølgende Exodus av jøder hvis liv ble uutholdelig nettopp grunnet katastrofen som rammet palestinerne, som en slags rettferdiggjøring.

Altså at ettervirkningene liksom skal unnskylde årsaken.

[Opsat500]

Camlon skrev (5 timer siden):

Pakistan er ikke på vei til Europa fra Afghanistan og Robertaas snakket om folk som har bodd flere generasjoner i Afghanistan.

Hvor hentet du egentlig denne informasjonen fra?

https://amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/nov/01/pakistan-starts-mass-deportation-of-undocumented-afghans

[Rhabagatz]

8 hours ago, robertaas said:

!,7 millioner med afghansk opprinnelse skal nå utvises fra Pakistan. Mange har bodd flere generasjoner i Pakistan og de fleste er antagelig født der. Men jeg er ganske sikker på at det ikke bli bli demonstrasjonstog, trusler mot pakistanere eller redaktører som forteller om hvor forkastelig dette folket er.

Altså folk som vi med vårt begrepsapparat ville si har fått avslag på asylsøknaden.

 

[Snikpellik]

Kanskje vi skulle gått fra afghansk asylpolitikk og tilbake til krigen mellom Israel og Hamas?

–

Oppdatert kart fra War Mapper.

Som vi ser har IDF avansert noe langs kysten, og Gazastripen er stadig delt i to.

(War Mapper baserer seg på sattelittbilder og andre åpne kilder).

 

[Snikpellik]

Flere israelske medier skriver at tallet på drepte på Gazastripen er over 20.000, og siterer en tjenestemann fra IDF på at helsemyndighetene på Gaza bare fører opp kroppene de har funnet i listene over døde. Tjenestemannen sier dog at "flesteparten er terrorister".

Senior security official: 20 thousand were killed by IDF attacks in Gaza, most of them terrorists
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/r1tobe47t

Sitat

A senior security official said this evening (Saturday) that since the beginning of the war, 20,000 people have been killed by IDF attacks in the Gaza Strip - most of them terrorists. The official noted that hundreds were killed in the collapse of the terrorist tunnels in the Gaza Strip, and that the pressure on Hamas is increasing. "Only when they feel the sword on their necks." They will offer a deal to release the kidnapped, to save their skins," he said.

The Ministry of Health in Gaza, which is controlled by Hamas, claimed that 9,488 people have been killed in the Strip to date, about half of the number that the security agency claimed. In addition, and contrary to his words, they claimed in Gaza that 70% of the dead were women and children. The senior security official pointed out that in each of the IDF attacks on one of the terrorist tunnels in the Gaza Strip, between 50 and 100 people are killed, and in view of the hundreds of attacks since the beginning of the war, there are even estimates of the death toll greater than 20 thousand.

The security source noted that "in aggregate, there are thousands of terrorists among the ruins. The Palestinian Ministry of Health speaks of about 10,000, but refers only to the bodies it knows about."

(Google Translate)

–

Frankrike sier at minst 40 (!) franskmenn er blitt drept på Gazastripen siden 7. oktober, i tillegg er 8 savnet.

Minst 40 franskmenn drepne i Gaza
https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/den-israelsk-palestinske-konflikten-1.11060771 

Sitat

Det seier Frankrikes statsminister Elisabeth Borne til Inter Radio.

Ho fortel også at i tillegg til dei 40 drepne, er 8 franskmenn sakna.

 

Endret 6. november 2023 av Snikpellik

[Snikpellik]

Netanyahus finansminister, den høyreekstreme rasisten, konspirasjonsteoretikeren og tidligere anti-homoaktivisten Bezalel Smotrich går ut mot sin egen regjerings politikk for Vestbredden og ber om at det opprettes sperringer rundt byer der innbyggere med palestinsk opphav ikke skal få slippe inn. Smotrich har tidligere bedt om bombing av palestinske byer og at Israel innfører dypt religiøse Torah-lover. Han er tidligere fengslet mistenkt for terrorplanlegging, da han ble tatt med 700 liter drivstoff som skulle brukes til å sprenge en motorvei som var evakueringsrute for innbyggere fra Gaza.

Smotrich: Israel's war policy in the West Bank is 'insanity'
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-771887

Sitat

Smotrich, who criticized the government's West Bank policy during Operation Swords of Iron, called on the cabinet to "shake up the security in the West Bank, including creating dead zones surrounding Jewish towns and preventing the entrance of Palestinians."

Uttalelsen er den nyeste i rekken av hårreisende utsagn fra ekstreme medlemmer i regjeringen, som Netanyahu er avhengig av å ha i posisjon for å beholde makten. Forrige uke satt han en tidligere dømt ekstremist til å styre Vestbredden-komiteen i Knesset, og for noen dager siden sparket han en minister for å snakke om å atombombe Gazastripen.

Flere ber om at Smotrich må sparkes, deriblant Haaretz på lederplass:

West Bank Warmonger Smotrich Must Be Fired
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-11-03/ty-article-opinion/west-bank-warmonger-smotrich-must-be-fired/0000018b-919e-db71-a7df-fddfcc7e0000

Endret 6. november 2023 av Snikpellik

[bshagen]

20 000 ja. Det er var ikke småtterier akkurat. Veit vi noe om det er andre soldater enn IDF som er kommet til unnsetning, eller opererer IDF helt alene med Amerikansk luftsupport? Ser for meg at Fremmedlegionen bl.a sikkert er interessert i denne konflikten, skulle ikke forundre meg at de dukket opp

[Snikpellik]

bshagen skrev (6 minutter siden):

20 000 ja. Det er var ikke småtterier akkurat. Veit vi noe om det er andre soldater enn IDF som er kommet til unnsetning, eller opererer IDF helt alene med Amerikansk luftsupport? Ser for meg at Fremmedlegionen bl.a sikkert er interessert i denne konflikten, skulle ikke forundre meg at de dukket opp

IDF opererer alene, det er ikke noe amerikansk luftstøtte. Lite som tyder på at noen andre nasjoner er interessert i å delta i krigen på israelsk side.

New York Times meldte i natt at USA vil involvere seg hvis Iran eller Hizbollah angriper Israel:

Sitat

The New York Times reported that according to U.S. officials, the Biden administration has made it clear to Iran and Hezbollah through regional partners that the U.S. will intervene militarily if they attack Israel.

https://www.haaretz.com/ty-WRITER/0000017f-da24-d42c-afff-dff6b57a0000

Endret 6. november 2023 av Snikpellik

[bshagen]

Ah, skjønner. Takk for oppklaringen

[paatur]

9 hours ago, Camlon said:

Pakistan er ikke på vei til Europa fra Afghanistan og Robertaas snakket om folk som har bodd flere generasjoner i Afghanistan.

Hvor hentet du egentlig denne informasjonen fra?

Pakistan er ofte første stopp for flyktninger fra Afghanistan som vil til Europa, grensen mot Iran fra afghanistan er mye strengere bevoktet enn grensen til Pakistan, fra Pakistan er det da lettere og komme set videre 

[0laf]

Palestinian woman smashes car into anti-Semitic group after 'mistaking them for Jews'

A Palestinian woman drove her car into a building occupied by an anti-Semitic group after she mistakenly thought she would be targeting the Jewish community, cops have claimed.

Ruba Awni Almaghtheh, 34, crashed her car into a building owned by a sect of the Black Hebrew Israelites in Indianapolis, Indiana after spotting a semblance of a Star of David symbol on its front door.

The Jewish Community Relations Council of Indianapolis (JCRCI) said in a statement that Almaghtheh likely targeted the location thinking it represented Israel because of the "Hebrew Israelites" wording at its front.

The Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department claimed the woman later told an officer she had specifically crashed into what she believed to be an "Israel school."

https://www.the-express.com/news/us-news/117444/palestinian-woman-crashes-car-antisemitic-group-jews

__________________

"Black Hebrew Israelites" er designert som en antisemittisk hatgruppe i USA, så rimelig skivebom av denne palestinske dama, som har uttalt at hun trodde det var en jødisk skole.

Endret 6. november 2023 av 0laf