Woke i moderne underholdningsindustri

[jjkoggan]

Red Frostraven skrev (49 minutter siden):

If they do not think a coup attempt is disqualifying for a presidential candidate, they're literally morons -- or far, far worse.
OR misinformed.

I literally cannot see any moral or sound defense for voting for someone who should have been in prison for life and ruled unfit to serve in any office -- because he literally is.

Some professors who are experts on coups disagree on whether to call it a "coup" or not:

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: The night it happened I called it a coup. Technically, it is a self-coup — autogolpe — a lot of our coup language comes from Latin America and Spanish for reasons to do with the Cold War. This was an operation from the inside — somebody who’s already in power and wants to stay in power. And also an inside job in that 57 GOP officials were at the rally. The coup culminated January 6, but it’s part of a thing that started in November and involved the elite of many institutions in the party. So that’s why I call it a coup attempt

Ryan McMaken: Well, my view is that it is a riot in the sense that it’s difficult to attribute any particular goal to the people who were actually involved at the Capitol. I mean, certainly last I checked, 11 people were charged with seditious conspiracy. So that would imply that at least some people involved had some particular goal in mind. But I just don’t think there was enough critical support from inside the regime to support the idea that it was actually a coup. In fact, the data coming out from the January 6 panel suggests that Trump was delusional if he thought he had any sort of meaningful support outside of himself. I mean, even his own family members seemed unenthusiastic. It was actually Mike Pence who was communicating with the military and they were taking orders from the vice president, not even the president. Trump did not really attempt to call in any sort of real support from the coercive arms of the government. If you can’t count on the police, if you can’t count on the military to provide some kind of support or at least some other elite group that has real power within the regime, then that strikes me as something that’s not a coup.

Matthew Cleary: I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. Certainly, riot is an easy way to describe it. Insurrection is better, and I think insurrection would be my preferred term for it. And I agree with Ryan that “coup” is a little too strong, and there are some important differences between what happened on January 6th, on the one hand, and your typical Latin American coup on the other hand. The most important being the lack of participation of any military or police forces of the state. In fact, Trump the man, the person, could not or did not count on the support of any institutional actors, so far as I know. Not the Supreme Court, not the Congress as a whole, although certainly he has some supporters in Congress, not other important institutions of the state.

The classic definition of a coup is the use of one part of the state apparatus to seize power of the state apparatus overall, and Trump just didn’t have that. The Latin American cases that I’ll describe to you all involved violence — a lot of violence. And the cases in which the incumbent president attempted to keep power, the autogolpes, as Ruth mentioned, also included substantial violence in use of force, and that just wasn’t the case here. Insurrection, I think, is more appropriate because at least some of those protesters on January 6 did have the intent, apparently, to force a change in the vote counting in a way that would change the leadership, that would change who would be president for the next four years

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/08/19/jan-6-coup-authoritarianism-expert-roundtable-00052281

Either way I agree it should be disqualifying whether it was a "coup" or not.  However, I am not surprised that you are alarmed that rational people can disagree with you or I.  I am not alarmed because I know I don't have all the answers and because I live with otherwise moral upstanding friends who I would trust my life with who are Trump supporters.

Endret 9 timer siden av jjkoggan

[Frode789]

Off-white girl boss som spiller SNOW WHITE, WHITE AS SNOW, og CGI "magical creatures that are not dwarves" woke fest kommer snart på kino. Gleder meg . Hun blir ikke reddet av prinsen så klart, det er nok heller hun som redder han, skal vi tro hennes egne intervjuer siste tiden. Og hun drømmer IKKE om ekte kjærlighet, selv om det var en core concept i den ekte filmen. Neida hun skal bli leder hun. 

4M views på hoved trailer med 325K dislikes og 18K likes. Blir bra dette folkens, join rabler og Raven på kino! 

Endret 6 timer siden av Frode789

[Red Frostraven]

jjkoggan skrev (5 timer siden):

Some professors who are experts on coups disagree on whether to call it a "coup" or not:

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: The night it happened I called it a coup. Technically, it is a self-coup — autogolpe — a lot of our coup language comes from Latin America and Spanish for reasons to do with the Cold War. This was an operation from the inside — somebody who’s already in power and wants to stay in power. And also an inside job in that 57 GOP officials were at the rally. The coup culminated January 6, but it’s part of a thing that started in November and involved the elite of many institutions in the party. So that’s why I call it a coup attempt

Ryan McMaken: Well, my view is that it is a riot in the sense that it’s difficult to attribute any particular goal to the people who were actually involved at the Capitol. I mean, certainly last I checked, 11 people were charged with seditious conspiracy. So that would imply that at least some people involved had some particular goal in mind. But I just don’t think there was enough critical support from inside the regime to support the idea that it was actually a coup. In fact, the data coming out from the January 6 panel suggests that Trump was delusional if he thought he had any sort of meaningful support outside of himself. I mean, even his own family members seemed unenthusiastic. It was actually Mike Pence who was communicating with the military and they were taking orders from the vice president, not even the president. Trump did not really attempt to call in any sort of real support from the coercive arms of the government. If you can’t count on the police, if you can’t count on the military to provide some kind of support or at least some other elite group that has real power within the regime, then that strikes me as something that’s not a coup.

Matthew Cleary: I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. Certainly, riot is an easy way to describe it. Insurrection is better, and I think insurrection would be my preferred term for it. And I agree with Ryan that “coup” is a little too strong, and there are some important differences between what happened on January 6th, on the one hand, and your typical Latin American coup on the other hand. The most important being the lack of participation of any military or police forces of the state. In fact, Trump the man, the person, could not or did not count on the support of any institutional actors, so far as I know. Not the Supreme Court, not the Congress as a whole, although certainly he has some supporters in Congress, not other important institutions of the state.

The classic definition of a coup is the use of one part of the state apparatus to seize power of the state apparatus overall, and Trump just didn’t have that. The Latin American cases that I’ll describe to you all involved violence — a lot of violence. And the cases in which the incumbent president attempted to keep power, the autogolpes, as Ruth mentioned, also included substantial violence in use of force, and that just wasn’t the case here. Insurrection, I think, is more appropriate because at least some of those protesters on January 6 did have the intent, apparently, to force a change in the vote counting in a way that would change the leadership, that would change who would be president for the next four years

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/08/19/jan-6-coup-authoritarianism-expert-roundtable-00052281

Either way I agree it should be disqualifying whether it was a "coup" or not.  However, I am not surprised that you are alarmed that rational people can disagree with you or I.  I am not alarmed because I know I don't have all the answers and because I live with otherwise moral upstanding friends who I would trust my life with who are Trump supporters.

...

De som ikke mener det er et kupp nevner jo her ikke Fake Electors, men ser på de høyreekstreme som brøt seg inn i kongressen som kuppforsøket.
Endret noen av dem mening da de ble klar over at det var en konkret forsøk på å få falske valgmenn til å endre resultatet inne i kongressen?

At Trump er et komplett inkompetent mehe endrer ikke på at det var et kuppforsøk -- uansett hvor dårlig man mener forsøket var.

Det er som å ikke regne et drapsforsøk som drapsforsøk fordi personen som forsøke å drepe en annen mislykkes med å lage potent gift og bare fikk noen til å drikke ekstra sterk mandelmelk.

Endret 3 timer siden av Red Frostraven

[DukeNukem3d]

Frode789 skrev (1 time siden):

4M views på hoved trailer med 291K dislikes og 18K likes.

haha!

[Frode789]

DukeNukem3d skrev (3 minutter siden):

haha!

325K nå, går fort unna.. Folk elsker når Disney driter på våre gode gamle klassikere. 

[DukeNukem3d]

Frode789 skrev (55 minutter siden):

325K nå, går fort unna.. Folk elsker når Disney driter på våre gode gamle klassikere. 

Hvem skulle trodd at folk misliker en remake der hovedrolleinnhaveren spytter på originalen. + Dårlig CGI m.m

[PgUp]

Artig hvordan voksne venn hisser ssg opp over jentefilmer:p ganske creepy og

[Poppmunn]

Å le av en elendig remake som kommer til å tape masse penger = å hisse seg opp?

[jjkoggan]

Red Frostraven skrev (4 timer siden):

...

De som ikke mener det er et kupp nevner jo her ikke Fake Electors, men ser på de høyreekstreme som brøt seg inn i kongressen som kuppforsøket.
Endret noen av dem mening da de ble klar over at det var en konkret forsøk på å få falske valgmenn til å endre resultatet inne i kongressen?

At Trump er et komplett inkompetent mehe endrer ikke på at det var et kuppforsøk -- uansett hvor dårlig man mener forsøket var.

Det er som å ikke regne et drapsforsøk som drapsforsøk fordi personen som forsøke å drepe en annen mislykkes med å lage potent gift og bare fikk noen til å drikke ekstra sterk mandelmelk.

At noe respekterte akademikere som er eksperter på coups er uenig med deg viser at det ikke er så sort hvit som du hevder eller at det er bare dumme og misinformerte folk som ikke mener det var en coup.