Nyere historie – den Katolske kirke & Jesuittene i fåreklær

[IHS]

Fint, da har du forstått at vi kan avvikle kirkene umiddelbart. Start med den okkulte katolske!

 

Ettersom du i god katolsk ånd fortsetter misinformere og avvike fra spørsmål du veldig godt vet jeg har svaret på, hjelper jeg deg litt på vei. Og la det bli tilføyd. Alle katolikker jeg har pratet med har fortalt at Jomfru Maria var evig jomfru.

 

Most Protestants claim that Mary bore children other than Jesus. To support their claim, these Protestants refer to the biblical passages which mention the "brethren of the Lord." As explained in the Catholic Answers tract Brethren the Lord, neither the Gospel accounts nor the early Christians attest to the notion that Mary bore other children besides Jesus. The faithful knew, through the witness of Scripture and Tradition, that Jesus was Mary’s only child and that she remained a lifelong virgin.https://www.catholic.com/tract/mary-ever-virgin

 

Er dette korrekt eller feil?

Men du sa jo nettopp din individuel kropp er Jesu tempel. Det er noe helt annet en hva Jesus, Apostlene og Kirken sier. Jesus sier hans kropp er Guds tempel, ikke din syndige kropp. Kirken som er integrert i Kristi kropp kan ikke avikles, da Kristi kropp er evig.

 

Den som er viktig er at Jesu mor sammen med alle de hellige er en del av Kristi kropp, ikke hvor lenge hun var jomfru.

[Dude12234]

Hmm... Selv liker jeg å se på mer en 1 kilde for hva som er hva lærer ofte noe nytt da virker som om selve diskusjonen er kommet ut av spor. Her er en kort film som kan lede folk til mer om temaet dersom dei interesserer seg for det eller vil ha litt hjelp til å finne ut mer selv. 

Litt forskjellig om gud  bare for å også holde meg til det andre temaet som har kommet opp kilde: https://godtv.com/names-of-god/

The 14 Names of God

1. Adonai: Lord God – Adonai is the plural form of adon (Lord) and means ‘My Lords’, referring to the Trinity. Adonai is never said out loud by Orthodox Jews, leading to its replacement by the title, HaShem (The Name). As the message of Yeshua is restored to the Jewish people, they will say, “Baruch Haba B’Shem Adonai” – “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord!”
2. Yahweh: God – The name of God used most often in the Hebrew Bible is YHWH known as a tetragrammaton (four-letter word).Hebrew is read right-to-left so the letters Yōd, Hē, Vav and Hē are taken for consonants and expanded to Yahweh or Jehovah in English. 
3. El Shaddai: God Almighty – The all sufficient God of the Mighty Breasted One. It’s an expression that reflects on God’s strength, majesty, and power. When translated into English, it is usually rendered as: God Almighty. “He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.” (Psalm 91:1)
4. El Roi: The God who sees me – Hagar, Sarai’s maidservant, fled her jealous master who treated her harshly after she bore Abram’s child. Wandering in the wilderness, desperate and alone, an angel of the Lord appears before Hagar to bring her comfort. Hagar declares, in Genesis 16:13, “You are El Roi!” You are God who sees me!” Never believe you are alone, even in your darkest troubles.“The Lord is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble and He knows those who take refuge in Him.” (Nahum 1:7)
5. Elohim: Father God / God the Creator – In the beginning [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth (Gen. 1:1). This name comes from being in awe of His power displayed throughout nature. He is the Sovereign God, and God of Eternity. In the beginning, He created – just by the power of His spoken Word. What an amazing God we serve! “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created…” (Colossians 1:15-16)
6. Yahweh Yireh: God Provides –  When Abraham went up the mountain to sacrifice his son, he made this faith-filled statement: “God Himself will provide a lamb”. And Yahweh Yireh did provide! He supplied a ram to be sacrificed instead of Isaac. Abraham memorializes this divine intervention with the name Yireh, for the Lord’s unfailing grace and constant provision. For the Lord sees and provides for our every need! “And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.”(Philippians. 4:19)
7. Yahweh Ropheka: The God who Heals – He is our Healer, in both body and soul! Psalm 147:3 says, “He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.” This name assures each of us that our Heavenly Father wants to restore us to wholeness. “Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget none of His benefits; Who pardons all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases.” (Psalm 103:2-3)
8. Jealous God, Consuming Fire – Our God is a jealous God, desiring our praise to be for Him alone. His jealousy is not out of selfishness, but a passionate love saying, “never will I leave you, never will I forsake you”. It is because of His burning love for us that His jealousy is so great. “For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.” (Deuteronomy 4:24) Give Him your whole heart today.
9. Yahweh Nissi: The Lord is my Banner – We hear this name declared by the Israelites after a victorious battle (Exodus 17:15). Banners are like today’s flags. They are lifted to a height where they can be seen as a reminder that symbolizes: security, hope, and freedom. With the Lord as our Banner we are assured victory, we can run and not grow weary, and have peace and joy! “His banner over me is love” (Song of Songs 2:4)
10. Yahweh Shalom: The God of Peace – Gideon was afraid he would die after seeing the angel of the Lord face to face. But the Lord said to him, “Peace to you, do not fear; you shall not die”. This had such an impact on Gideon that he built an altar there and named it Yahweh Shalom (Judges 6:22-24). Shalom speaks of wholeness, harmony, and completeness. Shalom is not dependent on circumstances. True peace comes only from complete trust in the Lord in all areas of our lives. “Now may the Lord of peace Himself continually grant you peace in every circumstance. The Lord be with you all!” (2 Thessalonians 3:16)
11. Yahweh Tsuri: God is My Rock. God is described as our Rock throughout the books of the prophets and Psalms. He is immovable, unbreakable, a safe place for retreat, and a fortress in battle! He is our true source of strength, our firm foundation, our support, and our defense. Cling to Him amidst all circumstances!“Trust in the Lord forever, for in God the Lord, we have an everlasting Rock.” (Isaiah 26:4)

12. Yahweh Tsebaoth: The Lord of Hosts. Appearing over 250 times in the Old Testament, this name can also be translated as ‘The Lord of Armies’. It captivates His sovereignty over all spiritual and physical armies. He is the Lord of Hosts and gives charge to a multitude of heavenly beings to face our adversaries. The King of the universe is fighting on our behalf- the victory is already ours. “‘Cease striving and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.’ The Lord of hosts is with us; The God of Jacob is our stronghold.” (Psalm 46:10-11)

13. El Olam: The Eternal God. This name teaches us that God created time, yet exists outside of and beyond it. Before the creation of the universe there was God with no beginning and no end. All things we know of change through time, yet our Father never does. This means the character of God, His Word, His Kingdom, and all He stands for never change and never end. That means we have a unceasing, dependable, trustworthy and consistent God! God has eternity in view for you.  “Lord, You have been our dwelling place for all generations… even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.” (Psalm 90:1-2) He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
14. Yeshua: Jesus. Beloved, there is no more important question that we must be prepared to answer than: “Who Do You Say at I Am?” (Matthew 16:15). This is the question Jesus asked his disciples and the only sound conclusion was that He was who He said He was, and is who He said He is – Lord, Messiah and Saviour.

The name of Jesus is the fulfilment of all the other names of God as it is the name of salvation. “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under Heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12). Furthermore as John 16:6 says, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” If you have never done so, then call upon the Name of Jesus and be saved.

For meg er det nok å bare si Gud.

Endret 25. februar 2019 av Dude12234

[AnArv]

Men du sa jo nettopp din individuel kropp er Jesu tempel. Det er noe helt annet en hva Jesus, Apostlene og Kirken sier. Jesus sier hans kropp er Guds tempel, ikke din syndige kropp. Kirken som er integrert i Kristi kropp kan ikke avikles, da Kristi kropp er evig.

 

Den som er viktig er at Jesu mor sammen med alle de hellige er en del av Kristi kropp, ikke hvor lenge hun var jomfru.

 

Du store min. Her er du virkelig på ville veier. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17: "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are."

 

Katolikkene lærer at Jomfru Maria var evig jomfru og dette er viktig for det okkulte. Vi kan enkelt dra parallellen til Semiramis, moren til Nimrod, som også er evig jomfru. Dermed er det nødvendig at man presiserer følgende:

 

Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Galatians 1:19mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood half-siblings.

Some Roman Catholics claim that these “brothers” were actually Jesus’ cousins. However, in each instance, the specific Greek word for “brother” is used. While the word can refer to other relatives, its normal and literal meaning is a physical brother. There was a Greek word for “cousin,” and it was not used. Further, if they were Jesus’ cousins, why would they so often be described as being with Mary, Jesus’ mother? There is nothing in the context of His mother and brothers coming to see Him that even hints that they were anyone other than His literal, blood-related, half-brothers.

 

A second Roman Catholic argument is that Jesus’ brothers and sisters were the children of Joseph from a previous marriage. An entire theory of Joseph's being significantly older than Mary, having been previously married, having multiple children, and then being widowed before marrying Mary is invented without any biblical basis. The problem with this is that the Bible does not even hint that Joseph was married or had children before he married Mary. If Joseph had at least six children before he married Mary, why are they not mentioned in Joseph and Mary’s trip to Bethlehem (Luke 2:4-7) or their trip to Egypt (Matthew 2:13-15) or their trip back to Nazareth (Matthew 2:20-23)?

 

There is no biblical reason to believe that these siblings are anything other than the actual children of Joseph and Mary. Those who oppose the idea that Jesus had half-brothers and half-sisters do so, not from a reading of Scripture, but from a preconceived concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is itself clearly unbiblical: “But he (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) until she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus” (Matthew 1:25). Jesus had half-siblings, half-brothers and half-sisters, who were the children of Joseph and Mary. That is the clear and unambiguous teaching of God’s Word.

 

Konklusjonen for ganske enkel; den Katolske kirke er okkulte djeveltilbedere. Det var ikke uten grunn at katolikkene ble utestengt fra Norge i 400 år. Våre forfedre visste og nå vet vi også dette!

[IHS]

Du store min. Her er du virkelig på ville veier. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17: "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are."

Det er nok du som er på ville veier. Med "you" mener Paulus dere (dere som grupp). De kristne er kollektivt (samlet) Jesu kropp, som er det nye tempel Gud bor i, som ikke må ødelegges.

 

Ef 1:22 "Alt la han under hans føtter, og ham, hodet over alle ting, ga han til kirken, som er Kristi kropp"

 

At din personlige syndig kropp er Guds tempel kan du bare glemme, det er kun i forening med Kristi hellige kropp du kan bli Guds nye bolig.

[IHS]

Konklusjonen for ganske enkel; den Katolske kirke er okkulte djeveltilbedere. Det var ikke uten grunn at katolikkene ble utestengt fra Norge i 400 år. Våre forfedre visste og nå vet vi også dette!

Nei, den katolske kirke er Jesu Kristi kropp, og katoliker tilber Gud slik Jesus Kristus ville at Gud skulle tilbes, utifra Jesus Kristus selv, som er sannheten, det er derfor de er i Kristus Jesus

 

Rom 6,23 Syndens lønn er døden, men Guds nådegave er evig liv i Kristus Jesus, vår...

Rom 8,1 Så er det da ingen fordømmelse for dem som er i Kristus Jesus.

Rom 12,5 På samme måte er vi alle én kropp i Kristus, men hver for oss er vi hvera...

Rom 16,3 Hils Priska og Akvilas, mine medarbeidere i Kristus Jesus.

Rom 16,9 Hils Urbanus, vår medarbeider i Kristus, og min kjære Stakys.

1 Kor 15,18 Da er også de fortapt som har sovnet inn i Kristus.

1 Kor 16,24 Min kjærlighet er med dere alle i Kristus Jesus.

2 Kor 1,21 Gud er den som grunnfester både oss og dere i Kristus, og som har salvet ...

2 Kor 5,17 Nei, den som er i Kristus, er en ny skapning. Det gamle er borte, se, det...

2 Kor 12,2 Jeg vet om et menneske i Kristus som for fjorten år siden ble rykket bort...

Gal 1,22 Menighetene i Judea, de som er i Kristus, kjente ikke meg personlig.

Gal 5,6 For i Kristus Jesus kommer det ikke an på om en er omskåret eller uomskåret

Ef 2,13 Men nå, i Kristus Jesus, er dere som var langt borte, kommet nær på grunn...

Fil 1,1 Paulus og Timoteus, Kristi Jesu tjenere, hilser alle de hellige i Kristus...

Fil 4,21 Hils hver og en av de hellige i Kristus Jesus. Mine søsken her hilser der...

Kol 1,2 hilser de hellige i Kolossai, de troende søsken i Kristus: Nåde være med ...

2 Tim 3,12 Alle som vil leve et gudfryktig liv i Kristus Jesus, skal bli forfulgt.

Hebr 3,14 Vi har jo del i Kristus, så sant vi helt til det siste holder fast på det...

1 Pet 5,14 Hils hverandre med kjærlighetens kyss!Fred være med dere, alle som er i Kristus

[AnArv]

Det er nok du som er på ville veier. Med "you" mener Paulus dere (dere som grupp). De kristne er kollektivt (samlet) Jesu kropp, som er det nye tempel Gud bor i, som ikke må ødelegges.

 

Ef 1:22 "Alt la han under hans føtter, og ham, hodet over alle ting, ga han til kirken, som er Kristi kropp"

 

At din personlige syndig kropp er Guds tempel kan du bare glemme, det er kun i forening med Kristi hellige kropp du kan bli Guds nye bolig.

 

 

Technically both the Catholic Church and Islam worship the same Devil. The Moon Goddess Screech Owl.However, true christianity does not associate with the catholics, as evidenced  through the wars between protestants and catholicism. However while protestants were the closest to the truth, they still missed the point and the true teachings of yeshuah which is simply to keep the commandments. The hardcore Protestants do not worship the Virgin Mary, they are aware of the deception that is occuring with the catholics. They are however usually strict with the law. But some of them chose to listen to Paul the Apostle. (Which is revered by the Catholics and Aleister Crowley)

 

 

I won’t get much into Paul, but he caused alot of damage to the church. Paulians can debate this all they want, but if you contradict the words that Yeshuah spoke which was about keeping the commandments, then you are contradicting the true christian way. The commandments are there to teach us to walk in spirit. It is also meant to keep the wicked in check and avoid criminals from running rampant. This is why religion clouds the mind, and the truth about true christianity is the following; It is NOT a religion. It was never meant to be a religion.  The commandments is the Golden rule, a way, to apply as examples to live and love / honor one another, but one we also learn through observing nature and the things around us. We are to LEARN not to put our hands on the hot stove. The fact that your hands gets burned when touching it, confirms the existence of the law. It is a living law. and if you do not follow it, unwanted things may happen to you. Cause and effect. You are here to take personal responsibility for your own actions. It was never meant to be enforced on anyone via physical sword. That is not love, and that is certainly not caring for one another. But if You still kill, you STILL broke the commandments. The true sword is that of the word, .And the word is simple, it was never about worship, it was always about love/care.

Endret 6. mars 2019 av AnArv

[IHS]

 

 

Technically both the Catholic Church and Islam worship the same Devil. The Moon Goddess Screech Owl.However, true christianity does not associate with the catholics, as evidenced  through the wars between protestants and catholicism. However while protestants were the closest to the truth, they still missed the point and the true teachings of yeshuah which is simply to keep the commandments. The hardcore Protestants do not worship the Virgin Mary, they are aware of the deception that is occuring with the catholics. They are however usually strict with the law. But some of them chose to listen to Paul the Apostle. (Which is revered by the Catholics and Aleister Crowley)

 

 

I won’t get much into Paul, but he caused alot of damage to the church. Paulians can debate this all they want, but if you contradict the words that Yeshuah spoke which was about keeping the commandments, then you are contradicting the true christian way. The commandments are there to teach us to walk in spirit. It is also meant to keep the wicked in check and avoid criminals from running rampant. This is why religion clouds the mind, and the truth about true christianity is the following; It is NOT a religion. It was never meant to be a religion.  The commandments is the Golden rule, a way, to apply as examples to live and love / honor one another, but one we also learn through observing nature and the things around us. We are to LEARN not to put our hands on the hot stove. The fact that your hands gets burned when touching it, confirms the existence of the law. It is a living law. and if you do not follow it, unwanted things may happen to you. Cause and effect. You are here to take personal responsibility for your own actions. It was never meant to be enforced on anyone via physical sword. That is not love, and that is certainly not caring for one another. But if You still kill, you STILL broke the commandments. The true sword is that of the word, .And the word is simple, it was never about worship, it was always about love/care.

 

Så Paulus er djevelen fordi han sa de kristne ikke er under loven (budene)

 

 

Rom 6,14 > Synden skal ikke herske over dere, for dere står ikke under loven, men under nåden. Hva så? Skal vi synde, fordi vi ikke er under loven, men under nåden? Slett ikke! 

 

Rom 7,6 > nå er vi løst fra loven, vi er døde fra det som bandt oss. Derfor tjener vi Gud i et nytt liv i Ånden, og ikke i det gamle, etter bokstaven. 

 

Gal 3,13 > Kristus kjøpte oss fri fra lovens forbannelse da han kom under forbannelse for vår skyld.

 

Gal 4,21 > Si meg, dere som vil være under loven, hører dere ikke på loven?

 

Gal 5,1 > Til frihet har Kristus frigjort oss. Stå derfor fast og la dere ikke tvinge inn under slaveåket igjen. Hør hva jeg, Paulus, sier dere:....Dere som vil bli rettferdige ved loven, er skilt fra Kristus; dere er falt ut av nåden.

 

Gal 5,18 > blir dere drevet av Ånden, er dere ikke under loven

 

Ef 2,15 > Kristus Jesus,... Ved sin kropp har han opphevet loven med dens bud og forskrifter. 

[AnArv]

 

Så Paulus er djevelen fordi han sa de kristne ikke er under loven (budene)

 

 

Rom 6,14 > Synden skal ikke herske over dere, for dere står ikke under loven, men under nåden. Hva så? Skal vi synde, fordi vi ikke er under loven, men under nåden? Slett ikke! 

 

Rom 7,6 > nå er vi løst fra loven, vi er døde fra det som bandt oss. Derfor tjener vi Gud i et nytt liv i Ånden, og ikke i det gamle, etter bokstaven. 

 

Gal 3,13 > Kristus kjøpte oss fri fra lovens forbannelse da han kom under forbannelse for vår skyld.

 

Gal 4,21 > Si meg, dere som vil være under loven, hører dere ikke på loven?

 

Gal 5,1 > Til frihet har Kristus frigjort oss. Stå derfor fast og la dere ikke tvinge inn under slaveåket igjen. Hør hva jeg, Paulus, sier dere:....Dere som vil bli rettferdige ved loven, er skilt fra Kristus; dere er falt ut av nåden.

 

Gal 5,18 > blir dere drevet av Ånden, er dere ikke under loven

 

Ef 2,15 > Kristus Jesus,... Ved sin kropp har han opphevet loven med dens bud og forskrifter. 

 

 

Du er desillusjonert. Selv etter at bevisene er lagt fram foran deg fornekter du fortsatt. Dermed er det ikke et problem ift. intelligens, men et problem med hjertet. Litt mer informasjon om hvordan katolikkene, djevelens løpegutter, har forledet menneskene:

https://anarv.home.blog/2019/03/08/stammer-vi-virkelig-fra-fiskene-eller-har-den-teorien-en-logisk-forklaring/

[7RQE101Q]

Jeg syns at diskusjonen om hvilken av trosretningene innenfor abrehams tro som er feil, når gud i andre mosebok viser seg fra sin mindre hyggelig side (og også en av hovedgrunnene for at jeg sluttet å tro, flere jeg kjenner som har gått fra troende til ikke troende etter å ha lest gamletestamentet)

 

Så sa han til dem: «Dette er hva Jehova, Israels Gud, har sagt: ‘Hver og en av dere skal spenne på seg sverdet og gå gjennom hele leiren, fra den ene enden til den andre.* Drep deres brødre, naboer og nære venner.’»æ 28 Levittene gjorde som Moses hadde sagt. Den dagen ble omkring 3000 mann drept. 29 Moses sa da: «Skill dere ut* for Jehova i dag, for dere var villige til å gå imot deres egne sønner og deres egne brødre.ø Derfor skal han i dag velsigne dere.»å

For de spesielt intreserte er her en analyse av hele teksten (på dansk, men det kalrer en hvis en vil). Jeg regner med at den er spesielt intresant for deg AnArv, da du nevner hele tiden hvor ufeilbar bibelen er:

https://www.biblen.info/Ti-bud-historie.htm

[AnArv]

Jeg syns at diskusjonen om hvilken av trosretningene innenfor abrehams tro som er feil, når gud i andre mosebok viser seg fra sin mindre hyggelig side (og også en av hovedgrunnene for at jeg sluttet å tro, flere jeg kjenner som har gått fra troende til ikke troende etter å ha lest gamletestamentet)

 

 

For de spesielt intreserte er her en analyse av hele teksten (på dansk, men det kalrer en hvis en vil). Jeg regner med at den er spesielt intresant for deg AnArv, da du nevner hele tiden hvor ufeilbar bibelen er:

https://www.biblen.info/Ti-bud-historie.htm

 

Som man kan gjenta til det kjedsommelige; pass opp for hvem du lytter til.

 

 

Alone he climbed the steep and rugged path, and drew near to the cloud that marked the place of Jehovah's presence. Israel was now to be taken into a close and peculiar relation to the Most High--to be incorporated as a church and a nation under the government of God. The message to Moses for the people was:

 

"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto Myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine: and ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation."

 

Moses returned to the camp, and having summoned the elders of Israel, he repeated to them the divine message. Their answer was, "All that the Lord hath spoken we will do." Thus they entered into a solemn covenant with God, pledging themselves to accept Him as their ruler, by which they became, in a special sense, the subjects of His authority.

 

Again their leader ascended the mountain, and the Lord said unto him, "Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee forever." When they met with difficulties in the way, they were disposed to murmur against Moses and Aaron, and accuse them of leading the hosts of Israel from Egypt to destroy them. The Lord would honor Moses before them, that they might be led to confide in his instructions.

 

God purposed to make the occasion of speaking His law a scene of awful grandeur, in keeping with its exalted character. The people were to be impressed that everything connected with the service of God must be regarded with the greatest reverence.

 

The Lord said to Moses, "Go unto the people, and sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes, and be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon Mount Sinai." During these intervening days all were to occupy the time in solemn preparation to appear before God. Their person and their clothing must be freed from impurity. And as Moses should point out their sins, they were to devote themselves to humiliation, fasting, and prayer, that their hearts might be cleansed from iniquity.

 

The preparations were made, according to the command; and in obedience to a further injunction, Moses directed that a barrier be placed about the mount, that neither man nor beast might intrude upon the sacred precinct. If any ventured so much as to touch it, the penalty was instant death.

On the morning of the third day, as the eyes of all the people were turned toward the mount, its summit was covered with a thick cloud, which grew more black and dense, sweeping downward until the entire mountain was wrapped in darkness and awful mystery. Then a sound as of a trumpet was heard, summoning the people to meet with God; and Moses led them forth to the base of the mountain. From the thick darkness flashed vivid lightning, while peals of thunder echoed and re-echoed among the surrounding heights. "And Mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly." "The glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount" in the sight of the assembled multitude. And "the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder." So terrible were the tokens of Jehovah's presence that the hosts of Israel shook with fear, and fell upon their faces before the Lord. Even Moses exclaimed, "I exceedingly fear and quake." Hebrews 12:21.

 

And now the thunders ceased; the trumpet was no longer heard; the earth was still. There was a period of solemn silence, and then the voice of God was heard. Speaking out of the thick darkness that enshrouded Him, as He stood upon the mount, surrounded by a retinue of angels, the Lord made known His law. Moses, describing the scene, says: "The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; He shined forth from Mount Paran, and He came with ten thousands of saints: from His right hand went a fiery law for them. Yea, He loved the people; all His saints are in Thy hand: and they sat down at Thy feet; every one shall receive of Thy words." Deuteronomy 33:2, 3.

Jehovah revealed Himself, not alone in the awful majesty of the judge and lawgiver, but as the compassionate guardian of His people: "I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." He whom they had already known as their Guide and Deliverer, who had brought them forth from Egypt, making a way for them through the sea, and overthrowing Pharaoh and his hosts, who had thus shown Himself to be above all the gods of Egypt--He it was who now spoke His law.

 

The law was not spoken at this time exclusively for the benefit of the Hebrews. God honored them by making them the guardians and keepers of His law, but it was to be held as a sacred trust for the whole world. The precepts of the Decalogue are adapted to all mankind, and they were given for the instruction and government of all. Ten precepts, brief, comprehensive, and authoritative, cover the duty of man to God and to his fellow man; and all based upon the great fundamental principle of love. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." Luke 10:27. See also Deuteronomy 6:4, 5; Leviticus 19:18. In the Ten Commandments these principles are carried out in detail, and made applicable to the condition and circumstances of man.

 

Commandment 1: "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

Jehovah, the eternal, self-existent, uncreated One, Himself the Source and Sustainer of all, is alone entitled to supreme reverence and worship. Man is forbidden to give to any other object the first place in his affections or his service. Whatever we cherish that tends to lessen our love for God or to interfere with the service due Him, of that do we make a god.

 

Commandment 2: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them."

The second commandment forbids the worship of the true God by images or similitude. Many heathen nations claimed that their images were mere figures or symbols by which the Deity was worshiped, but God has declared such worship to be sin. The attempt to represent the Eternal One by material objects would lower man's conception of God. The mind, turned away from the infinite perfection of Jehovah, would be attracted to the creature rather than to the Creator. And as his conceptions of God were lowered, so would man become degraded.

"I the Lord thy God am a jealous God.Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me. Showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My commandments."

The close and sacred relation of God to His people is represented under the figure of marriage. Idolatry being spiritual adultery, the displeasure of God against it is fitly called jealousy.

It is inevitable that children should suffer from the consequences of parental wrongdoing, but they are not punished for the parents' guilt, except as they participate in their sins. It is usually the case, however, that children walk in the steps of their parents. By inheritance and example the sons become partakers of the father's sin. Wrong tendencies, perverted appetites, and debased morals, as well as physical disease and degeneracy, are transmitted as a legacy from father to son, to the third and fourth generation. This fearful truth should have a solemn power to restrain men from following a course of sin.

In prohibiting the worship of false gods, the second commandment by implication enjoins the worship of the true God. And to those who are faithful in His service, mercy is promised, not merely to the third and fourth generation as is the wrath threatened against those who hate Him, but to thousands of generations.

 

Commandment 3: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain."

This commandment not only prohibits false oaths and common swearing, but it forbids us to use the name of God in a light or careless manner, without regard to its awful significance. By the thoughtless mention of God in common conversation, by appeals to Him in trivial matters, and by the frequent and thoughtless repetition of His name, we dishonor Him. "Holy and reverend is His name." Psalm 111:9. All should meditate upon His majesty, His purity and holiness, that the heart may be impressed with a sense of His exalted character; and His holy name should be uttered with reverence and solemnity.

 

Commandment 4: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it."

The Sabbath is not introduced as a new institution but as having been founded at creation. It is to be remembered and observed as the memorial of the Creator's work. Pointing to God as the Maker of the heavens and the earth, it distinguishes the true God from all false gods. All who keep the seventh day signify by this act that they are worshipers of Jehovah. Thus the Sabbath is the sign of man's allegiance to God as long as there are any upon the earth to serve Him. The fourth commandment is the only one of all the ten in which are found both the name and the title of the Lawgiver. It is the only one that shows by whose authority the law is given. Thus it contains the seal of God, affixed to His law as evidence of its authenticity and binding force.

God has given me six days wherein to labor, and He requires that their own work be done in the six working days. Acts of necessity and mercy are permitted on the Sabbath, the sick and suffering are at all times to be cared for; but unnecessary labor is to be strictly avoided. "Turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable; and . . . honor Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure." Isaiah 58:13. Nor does the prohibition end here. "Nor speaking thine own words," says the prophet. Those who discuss business matters or lay plans on the Sabbath are regarded by God as though engaged in the actual transaction of business. To keep the Sabbath holy, we should not even allow our minds to dwell upon things of a worldly character. And the commandment includes all within our gates. The inmates of the house are to lay aside their worldly business during the sacred hours. All should unite to honor God by willing service upon His holy day.

 

Commandment 5: "Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee."

Parents are entitled to a degree of love and respect which is due to no other person. God Himself, who has placed upon them a responsibility for the souls committed to their charge, has ordained that during the earlier years of life, parents shall stand in the place of God to their children. And he who rejects the rightful authority of his parents is rejecting the authority of God. The fifth commandment requires children not only to yield respect, submission, and obedience to their parents, but also to give them love and tenderness, to lighten their cares, to guard their reputation, and to succor and comfort them in old age. It also enjoins respect for ministers and rulers and for all others to whom God has delegated authority.

This, says the apostle, "is the first commandment with promise." Ephesians 6:2. To Israel, expecting soon to enter Canaan, it was a pledge to the obedient, of long life in that good, land; but it has a wider meaning, including all the Israel of God, and promising eternal life upon the earth when it shall be freed from the curse of sin.

 

Commandment 6: "Thou shalt not kill."

All acts of injustice that tend to shorten life; the spirit of hatred and revenge, or the indulgence of any passion that leads to injurious acts toward others, or causes us even to wish them harm (for "whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer"); a selfish neglect of caring for the needy or suffering; all self-indulgence or unnecessary deprivation or excessive labor that tends to injure health--all these are, to a greater or less degree, violations of the sixth commandment.

 

Commandment 7: "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

This commandment forbids not only acts of impurity, but sensual thoughts and desires, or any practice that tends to excite them. Purity is demanded not only in the outward life but in the secret intents and emotions of the heart. Christ, who taught the far-reaching obligation of the law of God, declared the evil thought or look to be as truly sin as is the unlawful deed.

 

Commandment 8: "Thou shalt not steal."

Both public and private sins are included in this prohibition. The eighth commandment condemns man stealing and slave dealing, and forbids wars of conquest. It condemns theft and robbery. It demands strict integrity in the minutest details of the affairs of life. It forbids overreaching in trade, and requires the payment of just debts or wages. It declares that every attempt to advantage oneself by the ignorance, weakness, or misfortune of another is registered as fraud in the books of heaven.

 

Commandment 9: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

False speaking in any matter, every attempt or purpose to deceive our neighbor, is here included. An intention to deceive is what constitutes falsehood. By a glance of the eye, a motion of the hand, an expression of the countenance, a falsehood may be told as effectually as by words. All intentional overstatement, every hint or insinuation calculated to convey an erroneous or exaggerated impression, even the statement of facts in such a manner as to mislead, is falsehood. This precept forbids every effort to injure our neighbor's reputation by misrepresentation or evil surmising, by slander or tale bearing. Even the intentional suppression of truth, by which injury may result to others, is a violation of the ninth commandment.

 

Commandment 10: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's."

The tenth commandment strikes at the very root of all sins, prohibiting the selfish desire, from which springs the sinful act. He who in obedience to God's law refrains from indulging even a sinful desire for that which belongs to another will not be guilty of an act of wrong toward his fellow creatures.

Such were the sacred precepts of the Decalogue, spoken amid thunder and flame, and with a wonderful display of the power and majesty of the great Lawgiver. God accompanied the proclamation of His law with exhibitions of His power and glory, that His people might never forget the scene, and that they might be impressed with profound veneration for the Author of the law, the Creator of heaven and earth. He would also show to all men the sacredness, the importance, and the permanence of His law

https://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-background-ten-commandments

Endret 9. mars 2019 av AnArv

[AnArv]

Jeg syns at diskusjonen om hvilken av trosretningene innenfor abrehams tro som er feil, når gud i andre mosebok viser seg fra sin mindre hyggelig side (og også en av hovedgrunnene for at jeg sluttet å tro, flere jeg kjenner som har gått fra troende til ikke troende etter å ha lest gamletestamentet)

Bare slik at det er avklart; det gamle testamentet er forbeholdt Israel og det nye testamentet resten av verden, såfremt det ikke er repetert /gjentatt i det nye testamentet. 

[7RQE101Q]

Bare slik at det er avklart; det gamle testamentet er forbeholdt Israel og det nye testamentet resten av verden, såfremt det ikke er repetert /gjentatt i det nye testamentet.

 

Og hvor er kilden for det eller er det egen tolkning?

 

Og siden du kan din bibelhistorie, forklar meg hvorfor Aron lagd et feil bilde etter at han hadde vært å spist med han. Han og de han var med når han lagde bilde hadde vært og møt gud og lagde så et bilde av han. Kan du forklare hvorfor denne representasjonen er feil og i så tilfelle hvordan den er feil?

[AnArv]

Og hvor er kilden for det eller er det egen tolkning?

Og siden du kan din bibelhistorie, forklar meg hvorfor Aron lagd et feil bilde etter at han hadde vært å spist med han. Han og de han var med når han lagde bilde hadde vært og møt gud og lagde så et bilde av han. Kan du forklare hvorfor denne representasjonen er feil og i så tilfelle hvordan den er feil?

 

Man er ikke alene om en slik tolkning. Bl.a er Frank Turek hos crossexamined en som argumenterer for dette synspunktet.

 

Bare husk at jeg kan bidra med min tolkning og informasjonen jeg har. Er absolutt ikke lærd innen temaet. Hvilket bibelvers referer du til? Er det Leviticus 10-17:18?

Endret 9. mars 2019 av AnArv

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Man er ikke alene om en slik tolkning. Bl.a er Frank Turek hos crossexamined en som argumenterer for dette synspunktet.

 

Bare husk at jeg kan bidra med min tolkning og informasjonen jeg har. Er absolutt ikke lærd innen temaet. Hvilket bibelvers referer du til? Er det Leviticus 10-17:18?

Jeg referer til den mindre kjente versionen av historien om de ti bud. Den som står i bibelen og som sier at de lærde med moses og aron spiste og drakk med gud før aron lagde et gudebilde av gud for folket, som ikke hadde fått spist og drukket med gud. Aka, Aron og de lærde lagde et bilde av den han så når de spiste og drakk med gud.

 

Og hvor er argumentasjonen og kilden i bibelen til at du ikke lenger skal følge påleggene fra GT?

[AnArv]

Jeg referer til den mindre kjente versionen av historien om de ti bud. Den som står i bibelen og som sier at de lærde med moses og aron spiste og drakk med gud før aron lagde et gudebilde av gud for folket, som ikke hadde fått spist og drukket med gud. Aka, Aron og de lærde lagde et bilde av den han så når de spiste og drakk med gud.

 

Og hvor er argumentasjonen og kilden i bibelen til at du ikke lenger skal følge påleggene fra GT?

 

Vedkommende som har skrevet det du linket til har misforstått noe fundamentalt, evt vedkommende er satanist.

 

Verses 2-4: Aaron suggested the people give him their “golden earrings”; then he melted the gold into a “molded calf”. This action clearly broke the first two commandments (see Exodus 20:3-6). Although the Egyptians worshiped cows, probably more pertinent here is that bovine imagery was directly associated with the Canaanite worship of Baal. This golden calf is a dark foreshadowing of Israel’s future idolatry (1 Cor. 10:7).

https://www.bible-studys.org/Bible%20Books/Exodus/Exodus%20Chapter%2032.html

 

Hovedargumentet er at OT var skrevet for jødene og ikke oss gentile. Vil ikke strekke det så langt at man ikke skal følge påleggene. Sjelden jeg er enig med jødene, men denne er ganske godt oppsummert. Du finner hele artikkelen linket. Et lite utdrag;

 

Have you ever considered why God put such challenging books as Leviticus and Deuteronomy at the beginning of his word? The Koran starts with easy, short chapters and becomes increasingly lengthy, challenging and complex, but the Bible seems to be largely the other way around. Why? Perhaps it’s a challenge to the reader – a test. There are those who will take a quick look, scrunch up their noses and turn away, but others will give it more of a chance, showing hope and trust that there is meaning and goodness in these bewildering books even if it is not immediately visible. This is what God is looking for. We see this in the way God presents himself generally – he could easily bedazzle us with his brilliance and glory, making it undeniable and inescapable that he is indeed Lord. But he doesn’t. Why? He respects our free will and choice. He loves us and wants us to love him too, voluntarily, not out of compulsion, but out of our own desire. God wants us to seek him and his words diligently, trusting all the while that he is just, wise and loving… that there are good answers to the things we don’t understand, even if it takes time to find them.

 

He wants us to consider that he is WORTH IT – worth the pursuit, worth the struggle and worth fighting for. Like the sun that is the perfect distance away from the earth so that we don’t freeze or burn, God cloaks himself in just enough mystery that we are neither compelled to believe him, nor is it impossible to find him. And boy, what a pearl of great price is waiting to be found by those who are willing to seek.

 

https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-based-teaching-from-israel/bible-teachings/the-old-testament-obsolete-and-embarrassing-or-still-valid-today/

Alt skal settes i riktig perspektiv og dette viser hvor mye gjentakelse det er fra GT i NT:

 

Additional points of interest

 

• The New Testament quotes the Old Testament more than 1,000 times!
• The four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) refer to the Old Testament Scriptures on an average of three to four times per chapter.
• Of the 39 books in the Old Testament, Christ, in the book of Revelation makes references to 31 of them.
• In the 22 chapters of the book of Revelation, there are 228 references made to the Old Testament—that’s an average of 10 times per chapter.
• Actually, there are only four New Testament books that do not have a direct quote from the Old Testament: Philemon and 1, 2 and 3 John (An American Translation—The New Testament in the Language of Today by William F. Beck, 1964).

Christ meant what He said

Therefore, when Christ countered Satan in Matthew 4:4 by saying man must live by “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God,” Jesus meant exactly what He said. So is the Old Testament relevant? Yes, Christ meant “every word”—in both the Old and New Testaments—the entirety of the Bible, not just part of it.

https://lifehopeandtruth.com/bible/holy-bible/old-testament/is-the-old-testament-relevant/

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Therefore, when Christ countered Satan in Matthew 4:4 by saying man must live by “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God,” Jesus meant exactly what He said. So is the Old Testament relevant? Yes, Christ meant “every word”—in both the Old and New Testaments—the entirety of the Bible, not just part of it.

https://lifehopeandtruth.com/bible/holy-bible/old-testament/is-the-old-testament-relevant/

Bestem deg nå, hvis GT ikke gjelder, hvor er bibelverset som sier det. Du presenterer et bibelvers som sier at GT gjelder, fra bibelen. Så hvor er bibelverset som sier at GT ikke gjelder? Sa ikke du at boka var perfekt?

[AnArv]

Bestem deg nå, hvis GT ikke gjelder, hvor er bibelverset som sier det. Du presenterer et bibelvers som sier at GT gjelder, fra bibelen. Så hvor er bibelverset som sier at GT ikke gjelder? Sa ikke du at boka var perfekt?

 

Rolig nå. Ingen grunn til at du skal bli sint. Som du ser er det forskjellig tolkninger derfor la jeg ved all informasjon jeg har. Hvordan du tolker dette er opp til deg. Noen tolker det slik at de som har funnet Jesus, gjelder hele OT også for, ikke bare israelittene. At Han mente hvert ord i bibelen kan du være sikker på, men om det er enkelt deler som kun gjelder for israelittene f.eks, tror jeg er sannsynlig. Igjen dette er min tolkning. Og ja, boken er perfekt. 

 

Sammenhenger har visst seg ikke være globernes sterkeste side. 

[Capitan Fracassa]

Som du ser er det forskjellig tolkninger [...]

 

Igjen dette er min tolkning. Og ja, boken er perfekt.

Bibelen er altså så uklart skrevet at selv kristne ikke kan være sikker på hva som menes, og har gått til krig mot hverandre om tolkninger - men den er allikevel perfekt!

 

Sammenhenger har visst seg ikke være globernes sterkeste side.

Jeg skjønner at du føler behov for å avslutte med en barnslig fornærmelse for å ta fokus vekk fra dette...

[AnArv]

Bibelen er altså så uklart skrevet at selv kristne ikke kan være sikker på hva som menes, og har gått til krig mot hverandre om tolkninger - men den er allikevel perfekt!

 

Om man perversierer bibelen tar man grep. Kristne er ikke feige om de oppdager at "kristne" driver med satan tilbedelse.

 

 

Jeg skjønner at du føler behov for å avslutte med en barnslig fornærmelse for å ta fokus vekk fra dette...

 

Mente hvert ord av hva jeg skrev der. Og det er slett ikke ment som en fornærmelse. Som jeg alltid sier; sannheten tar ikke hensyn til dine følelser. Siden jeg ikke lyver kan jeg ikke gjøre annet enn konstatere faktum. 

[7RQE101Q]

Rolig nå. Ingen grunn til at du skal bli sint. Som du ser er det forskjellig tolkninger derfor la jeg ved all informasjon jeg har. Hvordan du tolker dette er opp til deg. Noen tolker det slik at de som har funnet Jesus, gjelder hele OT også for, ikke bare israelittene. At Han mente hvert ord i bibelen kan du være sikker på, men om det er enkelt deler som kun gjelder for israelittene f.eks, tror jeg er sannsynlig. Igjen dette er min tolkning. Og ja, boken er perfekt.

 

Sammenhenger har visst seg ikke være globernes sterkeste side.

Hvis du sier boken er perfekt og Jesus sier at guds ord gjelder, hva er du da for å si motsatt? Du sier jo selv at boka er perfekt og der er ingen rom for feil, men når boka ikke passer til ditt liv så tolker du deg bort fra det.

 

Så du står igjen med to valg:

1. Bibelen er perfekt og Jesus ord er perfekt. GT og NT gjelder som Jesus sa.

2. Bibelen er ikke perfekt og kan tolkes som det vill. Jesus og guds ord er helt opp til tolkning.

 

Det du sier over er alternativ 2 mens det du sier i andre diskusjoner er alternativ 1. Men det kan jo ikke være begge, så hva blir det, alternativ 1 eller 2? Du kan jo ikke ha begge.

 

Så hva var det du sa om samenheng igjen