The Tremendous Trump Thread - Første periode (Les førstepost)

[Skatteflyktning]

 

 

Endret 18. januar 2019 av Skatteflyktning

[jjkoggan]

Firstly - most of the Trump-things discussed ITT are politics that impacts the whole world, not just the US.

This thread is dominated not by foreign policy discussions but internal left-right political battles that, of course mirror other western democracies. The question is why there appears to be more interest in internal american struggles than in your european neighbors who are your bigger trading partners.

 

Secondly - the stuff that is discussed here that is purely domestic US, is also relevant to the rest of the world simply because it so clearly demonstrates that you have elected a 5-year old with frequent temper tantrums as the worlds most powerful man.

Perhaps, but the obsession with american politics existed before Trump.

 

 What coloured lens ... we norwegians at least have neutral media (NRK). It is the ignorant americans that have coloured lenses imposed upon them by evil capitalist pig Rupert Murdoch through his extreme conservative newschannel: Fox.

 

How else could Trump have won ... even with the Russians helping out. And he did not really win (Hillary got most votes), it was just fraud.

You are not too far off with the way some think in these fora. The big thing is that the Trump phenomenon reinforces all the negative stereotypes of americans that have existed for centuries. How quickly they forget that many of the same people who voted for Trump also voted for Obama....

 

 

Endret 25. januar 2019 av Omnia vincit amor

[Zork]

The question is why there appears to be more interest in internal american struggles than in your european neighbors who are your bigger trading partners.

 

 

That's pretty easy to answer. For all the bad leaders some of our European neighbours managed to elect, none of them elected anything close to a cartoon villain like Trump. Nor do they do anything even remotely similiar to the inane stupidity that Trump displays on a daily basis.

 

If you didn't want to be a laughing stock and have a huge amount of attention on your president, then you probably shouldn't have elected a total joke as your president.

 

As for the "obsession with american politics existing before Trump" - I don't think you can find many examples of the rest of the world being overly obsessed with any president that didn't hugely impact the rest of the world also. 

 

While it's possibly slipping away, the US has been the most influential and powerful country in the world in recent history. You can't really expect the rest of the world to not care about what goes on there.

[xRun]

Siste:
CNN melder i kveld at en talsperson for spesialetterforsker Mueller har kommet med en uttalelse vedr. rapporten i Buzzfeed. Ifølge uttalelsen skal Buzzfeeds rapport som omtaler at Cohen løy til kongressen på ordre fra Trump være upresis. Det skal dreie seg om Buzzfeeds karakterisering av dokumentasjon og vitnemål gitt ifbm. dette.
Flere kongressmedlemmer har ila. dagen etterlyst en kommentar fra Muellers team, og dette ser ut til å være den kommentaren.
Live i nyhetskanaler nå.
 
Update - info om dette publisert på nett:

Respons fra Buzzfeed:
 
Mueller investigation goes on the record to dispute BuzzFeed report
https://www.axios.com/muellers-investigation-goes-on-the-record-to-deny-buzzfeed-report-a07f65a6-611a-42de-adf6-91f337ddfdf1.html
"BuzzFeed News responded by saying: "We are continuing to report and determine what the special counsel is disputing. We remain confident in the accuracy of our report."

 

Ifølge dekningen i nyhetskanaler har Buzzfeed også lagt til 2 ord i sin respons (ikke gjengitt i artikkelen over):

"Stay tuned"

 

Fra Buzzfeeds redaktør:

 

 

Det spesifiseres ikke i uttalelsen hva i det omtalte materialet som er upresist, eller hvilke deler som ikke stemmer. Uansett er det en trygg antagelse at uttalelsen vil bli brukt av republikanere til å avskrive både Buzzfeeds rapport, og Buzzfeed som selskap, og demokrater. Stort sett alt de kan bruke det for, jeg hører de er allerede i gang.

 

En mer fullstendig oppklaring av dette vil komme etterhvert. Cohens direktesendte høring i kongressen er fortsatt på planen for 7. februar.

Endret 19. januar 2019 av xRun

[jjkoggan]

As for the "obsession with american politics existing before Trump" - I don't think you can find many examples of the rest of the world being overly obsessed with any president that didn't hugely impact the rest of the world also.

.

Yes, interest fluctuates depending on the president and their actions, but overall i believe the level of Norwegian interest is still disproportionate to the actual influence.

 

I would explain it this way-americans know much more about what is going on in England than probably anywhere else not because it is the country that most impacts the usa economically, militarily or politically but simply because We are more interested in it.

China is in the process of becoming a world power. I am pretty sure Norwegians will not obsess about the minutiae of Chinese politics or people nearly as much as American politics and people, even though its influence will likely rival American influence. Norwegians are simply more interested in America than China.

 

It is interesting that you are not aware of this, Trump is just the latest reason to watch and feel superior. After all, you have told me that Berlusconi or Hitler can’t compare to Trump. European nations will never succumb to an ignorant populist. Then again, you have never elected a minority race leader either

Endret 19. januar 2019 av jjkoggan

[robertaas]

Kom det overraskende nok fra alt-right... Skal jeg finne fram den historisk katastrofale approvalraten til Donald igjen? Har du glemt den?

Jeg har ikke glemt ting som ikke stemmer, men det virker gjerne slikt i hodene på alt-left som ikke klarer komme med annet en fiktive fakta og personkrakteristikker som ikke stemmer.

[xRun]

Siste:
Trump hevder at han vil holde hva han kaller en "major announncement" vedr. den såkalte krisen ved grensen i sør og regjeringsstengingen. Denne kunngjøringen skal være planlagt for 3pm ET (21:00 norsk tid). Flere medier er skeptisk til kunngjøringens innhold, med forrige ukens tale til nasjonen friskt i minne.
 
Trump says he will make a 'major' announcement on Saturday about the border and government shutdown
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/trump-to-make-a-major-announcement-about-border-and-shutdown.html
"President Donald Trump said he will make a "major" announcement on Saturday about the border and ongoing government shutdown."
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1086395559504764930 

Fra Fox News :

 

 

 

Ifølge nyhetskanaler lørdag morgen kan det dreie seg om kunngjøring av en plan for å avslutte stengingen av regjeringen, som har begynt å gi negative utslag i polls den siste uken. Likevel uttrykkes det som nevnt en viss skepsis i forkant til hvor produktiv kunngjøringen blir. Stay Tuned.

Endret 19. januar 2019 av xRun

[Zork]

Yes, interest fluctuates depending on the president and their actions, but overall i believe the level of Norwegian interest is still disproportionate to the actual influence.

 

I would explain it this way-americans know much more about what is going on in England than probably anywhere else not because it is the country that most impacts the usa economically, militarily or politically but simply because We are more interested in it.

China is in the process of becoming a world power. I am pretty sure Norwegians will not obsess about the minutiae of Chinese politics or people nearly as much as American politics and people, even though its influence will likely rival American influence. Norwegians are simply more interested in America than China.

 

It is interesting that you are not aware of this, Trump is just the latest reason to watch and feel superior. After all, you have told me that Berlusconi or Hitler can’t compare to Trump. European nations will never succumb to an ignorant populist. Then again, you have never elected a minority race leader either

 

I have no idea what you're talking about in your last paragraph or who have told you that, but it certainly wasn't me. Going back to Hitler for an example of a bad leader is quite pointless for this debate unless you want to argue that Europe was more interested in the US president than in Hitler back then. I can assure you that was not the case. 

 

Also - if you think we are disproportionally interested in the US, then I don't think you understand just how much American culture has impacted and influenced this country (and most west European countries) since the 50s and 60s. Our culture has been hugely impacted by the American culture, movies, music, food and lifestyle over the past 50-60 years.

 

So yes, there is a lot of interest for the US in Western Europe, but given the history it is not disproportionate - it is quite natural and understandable. And the US would not be anywhere near the super power it is today without it, so I don't think it's something you should be complaining about. 

 

You're not complaining when we have a lot of interest in your music, movies, history and lifestyle and you shouldn't be complaining (and certainly not surprised) when we have a lot of interest in your politics either. I don't see how it could be otherwise, given our history? 

[jjkoggan]

I have no idea what you're talking about in your last paragraph or who have told you that, but it certainly wasn't me. Going back to Hitler for an example of a bad leader is quite pointless for this debate unless you want to argue that Europe was more interested in the US president than in Hitler back then. I can assure you that was not the case.

 

Also - if you think we are disproportionally interested in the US, then I don't think you understand just how much American culture has impacted and influenced this country (and most west European countries) since the 50s and 60s. Our culture has been hugely impacted by the American culture, movies, music, food and lifestyle over the past 50-60 years.

 

So yes, there is a lot of interest for the US in Western Europe, but given the history it is not disproportionate - it is quite natural and understandable. And the US would not be anywhere near the super power it is today without it, so I don't think it's something you should be complaining about.

 

You're not complaining when we have a lot of interest in your music, movies, history and lifestyle and you shouldn't be complaining (and certainly not surprised) when we have a lot of interest in your politics either. I don't see how it could be otherwise, given our history?

You didn’t understand the analogy with American interest in England. Your interest in the minutiae of American politics is not solely because the USA is a global economic and military power, it is because you are interested. China is also a global economic and military power and you buy more goods from China than the USA, but you are not as interested in their internal politics.

 

You don’t pay attention to Trump solely because you are afraid his actions will roil economic markets or military conflict, otherwise there would be much more Norwegian interest in China than there is. In that sense your interest is disproportionate. You buy more goods from China than the USA, there is great potential military conflict in Asia influenced by China, and China impacts economic markets globally but Trump supporters in Iowa are more interesting than Chinas conflict with Taiwan, Hong Kong or Japan.

 

The argument that you pay attention to Trump solely because the USA is powerful is simply not true. You pay attention disproportionately to America because you like to do so. American culture/media influences Norway because you like to watch it, you have given it unnecessary power. This is quite obvious. If you didn’t like it, it would have little influence.

Endret 19. januar 2019 av jjkoggan

[Vice]

Jeg har ikke glemt ting som ikke stemmer, men det virker gjerne slikt i hodene på alt-left som ikke klarer komme med annet en fiktive fakta og personkrakteristikker som ikke stemmer.

Men du har tydeligvis glemt den katastrofale approvalraten hans da? Eller stemmer den ikke ifølge alt-right?

For å friske på minnet ditt litt så kan du gå inn her: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

Den gir en fin sammenligning i forhold til andre presidenter.

[Zork]

obvious. If you didn’t like it, it would have little influence.

 

Well, duh. That's what I've been saying all along.

 

It's why we pay so much attention to the US. It's not strange or a mystery as you seem to think it is. It's really obvious and not something you need to be puzzled about.

[jjkoggan]

Well, duh. That's what I've been saying all along.

 

It's why we pay so much attention to the US. It's not strange or a mystery as you seem to think it is. It's really obvious and not something you need to be puzzled about.

But you appear to disagree that it is disproportionate to the actual need to understand internal American politics. The argument I have heard most often in these fora is that Norwegians need to obsess about it because the USA is a superpower not that they also do it because they are interested in it. That point has rarely been acknowledged hittil. Endret 19. januar 2019 av jjkoggan

[Zork]

But you appear to disagree that it is disproportionate to the actual need to understand internal American politics. The argument I have heard most often in these fora is that Norwegians need to obsess about it because the USA is a superpower not that they also do it because they are interested in it. That point has rarely been acknowledged hittil.

 

We can certainly agree that it's disproportionate compared to the need to understand, but it's not disproportionate compared to how influential the US and its president is, and has been throughout the past 100 years or so. What people find interesting is a huge leap away from what they actually need to know or should be informed about.

 

The point you seem to be making could be made about a number of things - nobody needs to be interested or understand the Kardashians, but they're still among the worlds most followed and popular family. One can argue that it's silly that it is that way, but it's no great surprise or myster why it is that way.

Endret 19. januar 2019 av Zork

[jjkoggan]

We can certainly agree that it's disproportionate compared to the need to understand, but it's not disproportionate compared to how influential the US and its president is, and has been throughout the past 100 years or so. What people find interesting is a huge leap away from what they actually need to know or should be informed about.

 

The point you seem to be making could be made about a number of things - nobody needs to be interested or understand the Kardashians, but they're still among the worlds most followed and popular family. One can argue that it's silly that it is that way, but it's no great surprise or myster why it is that way.

What do you say then to those who watch the kardashians and constantly complain/criticize them, but when asked why they pay attention to them they say they need to because they are so influential?

[Skatteflyktning]

What do you say then to those who watch the kardashians and constantly complain/criticize them, but when asked why they pay attention to them they say they need to because they are so influential?

hi, Brother in arms?

 

[Zork]

What do you say then to those who watch the kardashians and constantly complain/criticize them, but when asked why they pay attention to them they say they need to because they are so influential?

 

I don't say anything as I don't know anyone who watches the Kardashians. Noone that will admit to it at least.

 

And either way - I don't think it's a particularly relevant subject for this thread.

[jjkoggan]

I don't say anything as I don't know anyone who watches the Kardashians. Noone that will admit to it at least.

 

And either way - I don't think it's a particularly relevant subject for this thread.

You ignore the analogy. Substitute “ internal American politics” for “Kardashian’s”.

 

Complain incessantly about American politics while paying attention unnecessarily about American politics and then claiming you have to pay attention because it is so influential (mostly because you’re paying attention). It’s a circular argument.

Endret 19. januar 2019 av jjkoggan

[xRun]

Straks live:

Trump har en  "stor kunngjøring" (ifølge ham selv).

Først planlagt for 3pm ET, utsatt til 4pm (22:00 norsk tid)

 

Live fra WH i nyhetskanaler og på nett når det starter.

 

Alternativ stream:

 

 

[Zork]

You ignore the analogy. Substitute “ internal American politics” for “Kardashian’s”.

 

Complain incessantly about American politics while paying attention unnecessarily about American politics and then claiming you have to pay attention because it is so influential (mostly because you’re paying attention). It’s a circular argument.

 

Firstly, your analogies in the past few days have been uncharacteristically bad which is why I'm ignoring them. Your 'Europe vs US

 is like US vs GB' ignores some pretty significant differences and the Kardashians are never a good analogy, except for pointlessness which is where I used them.

 

Secondly - I haven't made the claim you make here. I don't know where you got the idea that US politics only impacts us because we pay attention to it, but it's clearly not true. Yes, we pay more attention to US politics than what is strictly necessary - I've already said this. This does not mean that all our attention is invalid because clearly the world, and obviously Norway, is impacted significantly by what the biggest nations in the world do. 

 

Point is: much of the attention is warranted. And the part that isn't, is no bigger for US politics or your presidents than it is for any other unimportant issue that receives a lot of attention.

[robertaas]

Men du har tydeligvis glemt den katastrofale approvalraten hans da? Eller stemmer den ikke ifølge alt-right?

Hva Alt-right måtte tro om saken har jeg ingen anelse om da jeg ikke kjenner noen fra alt-right, men fakta ser ut til å ha tungt for å nå frem til enkelte.

 

For å friske på minnet ditt litt så kan du gå inn her: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

Den gir en fin sammenligning i forhold til andre presidenter.

Jeg ser at du stadig skal fortelle meg om linken som jeg først postet til denne tråden. Og den viser jo andre med lavere score, om det har noen interesse. Som sagt ser enkelte i alt-left ut til virkelig å ha vondt for det.