The Tremendous Trump Thread - Første periode (Les førstepost)

[SilverShaded]

debattklovn skrev (5 minutter siden):

Og forskerne har dialog med presidenten. 
Det kan være så enkelt som at 8 uker er gitt som et pessimistisk estimat mens 4 uker er hvis alt går etter planen. 
Det er ingenting som tyder på at presidenten bare bestemte seg for at han bare skulle halvere ekspertenes estimat uten grunn.. 
 

Presidentenes forhold til sannhet er mildest talt løst. Han lyver så fort han ser en fordel mht å overbevise velgere. Samtidig er hans forestilling om tid på samme nivå. Jfr. den nasjonal helseplanenen som skulle erstatte "Affordable Care Act". Han lovet denne fantastiske og uforlignelige planen allerede da han var presidentkandidat i 2016. Etterpå har det vært mange "neste måned", "om to uker" osv osv. Til dags dato finnes det ingen plan. Om han kutter av noen uker på tids-estimatet spiller liten rolle...folk er allerede vaksinert mot Trump's tidsplaner.

[ism_InnleggNO]

Det er nok en kraftig overdrivelse å påstå at forskerne har noen dialog med presidenten. I beste fall får presidenten et kort sammendrag som det ikke er tegn på at han leser eller forstår. Forskerne hadde nok fått bedre respons om de snakket med veggen.

[debattklovn]

Siden jeg ser mange fordømme Trump-samlinger for å spre viruset, men samtidig støtte gatedemonstrasjoner med 10x så mange folk, så bare legger jeg denne inn her. 
 

 

[xRun]

Siste:

Washington Post og andre medier, headlines i nyhetskanaler, melder nå om Olivia Troye, et tidligere medlem av "White House Coronavirus Task Force" fra første dag, og før det et av VP Pence sine stabsmedlemmer med DHS-portefølje, som går hardt ut mot Trump-administrasjonen og presidenten for manglende interesse for menneskeliv ift. pandemien.
Ifølge Troy, og som flere andre har omtalt tidligere, skal Trump hele tiden ha vært mer interessert i økonomien og gjenvalgsutsiktene enn innbyggernes helse og liv, og lot dette (van-)styre prioriteringer ift. håndteringen av pandemien.
 

Former Pence aide says she will vote for Biden because of Trump’s ‘flat out disregard for human life’ during pandemic
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/olivia-troye-coronavirus-white-house/2020/09/17/d3f67ede-f8ed-11ea-a510-f57d8ce76e11_story.html
"President Trump’s response to the coronavirus pandemic showed a “flat out disregard for human life” because his “main concern was the economy and his reelection,” according to a senior adviser on the White House coronavirus task force who left the White House in August.
Olivia Troye, who worked as homeland security, counterterrorism and coronavirus adviser to Vice President Pence for two years, said that the administration’s response cost lives and that she will vote for Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden this fall because of her experience in the Trump White House.
“The president’s rhetoric and his own attacks against people in his administration trying to do the work, as well as the promulgation of false narratives and incorrect information of the virus have made this ongoing response a failure,” she said in an interview."

Mer:

Spoiler

"Troye is the first Trump administration official who worked extensively on the coronavirus response to forcefully speak out against Trump and his handling of the pandemic. But she joins a growing number of former officials, including former national security adviser John Bolton and former defense secretary Jim Mattis, who have detailed their worries about what happened during their time in the administration while declaring that Trump is unfit to be president.

The amount of criticism Trump has faced from former aides is unprecedented in the modern presidency, and it could pose a political risk to his reelection campaign as some of the aides who have spoken out are pressuring other former colleagues to join them.

The White House dismissed Troye as a disgruntled former employee and downplayed her role on the task force, while disputing her characterization that the pandemic response has not gone well.

“Ms. Troye is a former detailee and a career Department of Homeland Security staff member, who is disgruntled that her detail was cut short because she was no longer capable of keeping up with her day-to-day duties,” Lt. General Keith Kellogg, Pence’s national security adviser, said in a statement. “Ms. Troye directly reported to me, and never once during her detail did she every express any concern regarding the Administration’s response to the Coronavirus to anyone in her chain of command. By not expressing her concerns, she demonstrated an incredible lack of moral courage.”

White House spokesman Judd Deere said that Troye’s “assertions have no basis in reality and are flat out inaccurate” and that “the truth is President Trump always put the well-being of the American people first,” citing the president’s efforts to produce medical equipment, his early social distancing recommendations and the plan to produce a vaccine quickly.

Troye had an inside view of the White House’s pandemic response, which polls show is hurting the president with voters, and her review of the effort is scathing. She said in an interview that she would be skeptical of any vaccine produced ahead of the election because of worries its release was due to political pressure.

“I would not tell anyone I care about to take a vaccine that launches prior to the election,” she said. “I would listen to the experts and the unity in pharma. And I would wait to make sure that this vaccine is safe and not a prop tied to an election.”

Though Troye played a behind-the-scenes role during her time in the White House, she was a major participant in the task force’s work, attending and helping to organize “every single meeting” it held from February until July, she said. She worked closely with Pence on the administration’s response, including establishing an agenda for each meeting, preparing the vice president and arranging briefings for him, writing and editing his comments and dealing with the vice president’s political aides.

She was often pictured sitting against the back wall of the Situation Room near Pence in photos posted to social media. Her assistant would send the seating chart to officials across the administration, who in turn would consult with her about the workings of the group and Pence.

She described herself as a lifelong Republican who voted for every one of the party’s nominees before 2016. Troye did not vote for Trump because she didn’t like his rhetoric. She declined to say whom she voted for in the last election.

“But I got past it and accepted he was our president,” Troye, 43, said of the election result.

Troye said that she worked in the administration because she hoped Trump would morph into a stronger leader after a divisive campaign and that she had respect for other Trump officials, such as Pence.

“I still have a lot of respect for the vice president,” she said. “I worked very loyally for him to do everything I could for him. I don’t want this to become a speaking-out-against-him thing.”

The novel coronavirus has infected more than 6.5 million Americans and has killed nearly 200,000 — a toll Troye said has been exacerbated by Trump and his administration’s mishandling of the pandemic and by the conflicting messages he and his top aides have disseminated to Americans on masks, social distancing and other public health precautions.

Trump, she said, was not usually focused on the virus but would often “blindside” the task force and administration officials with public comments, such as his support for hydroxychloroquine, his Twitter attack on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention over the agency’s guidance on the reopening of schools, his skeptical comments about masks and his public musings about “herd immunity.” Many of his comments were the opposite of what had been discussed in the White House Situation Room, where task force meetings were often held, and were at odds with scientific recommendations or the administration’s own data, Troye said.

The administration, she said, missed months to slow the spread of the virus because the president and other key administration officials refused to embrace masks, even as members of the task force and health officials “repeatedly begged” Trump to do so. Trump allies note that many of the health officials first advised against masks before advising that they be used.

“The mask issue was a critical one. If we would have gotten ahead on that and stressed the importance of it, we could have slowed the spread significantly,” Troye said. “It was detrimental that it became a politicized issue. It still lingers today.”

Senior aides to Pence held a contemptuous view of the administration’s scientists and tried to project a far too rosy outlook about the virus with cherry-picked data — and key public health agencies including the CDC were marginalized throughout her tenure, Troye said. Advisers were afraid to express positions contrary to the president’s views because they feared a public denunciation or “that they would be cut out,” she said.

“At some point, every single person on the task force has been thrown under the bus in one way or another,” Troye said. “Instead of being focused on the task at hand, people were constantly wondering what was going to drop next or when you’re going to get reprimanded or cut out of a process for speaking out.”

Troye said the White House did not quickly resolve problems with coronavirus testing in the early months as the virus spread, though she concedes those hitches were not personally Trump’s fault.

Trump rarely attended task force meetings and was briefed only on top-level discussions by Pence or the government’s public health officials. When Trump attended one meeting, Troye said, he spoke for 45 minutes about how poorly he was being treated by certain personalities on Fox News.

“He spent more time about who was going to call Fox and yell at them to set them straight than he did on the virus,” she said.

Troye said Trump was constantly looking to reopen states and schools — even when others feared it would be unsafe — and would regularly disregard what his advisers suggested.

“There were a lot of closed door conversations I have had with a lot of senior people across the administration where they agree with me wholeheartedly,” she said, of her assessment on Trump.

 

Urging others to speak out
With seven weeks until the election, there is a concerted effort by a coterie of former Trump administration officials to push more aides to speak out, particularly boldface names who can secure national media attention and aides who can tell damaging stories in detail.

The president, for his part, has described many of those critical as “disgruntled former employees” who were not cut out for his administration. Administration officials note that a number of former employees also have praised the president extensively and that the president has overwhelming support in his own party.

Some former and current officials say they do not think ex-Washington officials will move many voters in key states. But Miles Taylor — who worked in the Homeland Security Department between 2017 and 2019, including as chief of staff — said compelling narrators with first-person testimonials can influence voters.

“Is the voice of an ex-Trump official going to change millions of votes? No. But if you can change the minds of several tens of thousands of people in swing states, it could absolutely impact the election,” said Taylor, who has formed a Republican anti-Trump group called Repair 45. Troye is joining the group and has recorded a video for it, she said.

Taylor said it had been difficult to secure marquee names to speak out against the president because “the president has done a very effective job of creating a culture of fear.”

According to people familiar with their views, those privately critical of Trump include Mattis, former White House chief of staff John F. Kelly, former secretary of state Rex Tillerson, former top economic aide Gary Cohn and former homeland security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen. These people, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on behalf of these officials. The former officials either did not respond to requests for comment or declined to discuss their views.

Kelly is among those most torn about what to do, according to people who have spoken with him. He describes the president in derisive terms — a narcissist who does not understand the military, cares only about his political fortunes and is unqualified to be president, the people said. He declined to comment for this article but has told others he is undecided over whether he should speak out more before the election, citing his previous role in the military and his concern about generals speaking out against elected presidents.

Beyond the fear of being attacked, there are other reasons that former advisers have not spoken out publicly.

Some of them are still staunchly Republican — even if they dislike Trump — and do not want to publicly support Biden. Some, like Nielsen, would have to defend their own roles in some of Trump’s most contentious decisions.

Taylor said he is encouraging former officials such as Mattis and Kelly to see that now is the time to break their self-imposed reticence.

“It took longer than it should have for every single one of us,” Taylor said. “All of us, myself included, should have spoken out sooner.”

 

Why Troye says she stayed
Troye said she expects sharp denunciations from former colleagues in the administration and also expects to be denigrated by the White House and the president on Twitter.

“Honestly, I am scared,” she said. “I have never done anything like this.”

Troye has long had an obscure profile in Washington — working behind the scenes at the Pentagon as a political appointee during the George W. Bush administration and then as a career official at the Homeland Security and Energy departments during the Obama administration before joining the vice president’s office in 2018 as an employee detailed from DHS.

Troye said she was disturbed by the president’s handling of myriad issues over two years — most notably his “military dictator, false prophet-like” march to St. John’s Episcopal Church for a photo with the Bible earlier this year after protesters were cleared from Lafayette Square.

Thoughts during her tenure of leaving gave way to other considerations, she said. Troye held a key role on the coronavirus task force but also carried out an array of other duties for the vice president, advising him on mass shootings, immigration, hurricanes and some foreign affairs issues, she said. The vice president would sometimes dial her cellphone, Troye said.

“I was the 24-hours-on-call person for major events for two years for him in the role,” Troye said.

In private, she said, Pence would say the “right things” in calls to governors and “was in an impossible situation with the president.” Troye also praised a number of the administration’s top health officials.

Troye said she and other advisers regularly encountered a desire on the part of the president and his political advisers, along with some senior members of the vice president’s team, to move on from the coronavirus even as thousands were dying and to focus on the economy or the campaign. She was asked by senior Pence aides, she said, to help on an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal that minimized the fears of a second coronavirus wave and touted the administration’s work on the virus as a success story.

“It was ludicrous,” she said of the piece, which ran in June. Troye, however, said she helped write it.

There regularly were suggestions from Pence’s top political advisers for his coronavirus remarks “that I could just not support, and it became harder and harder to push back,” Troye said.

These advisers, Troye said, wanted to wind down the task force at the end of April. “In the middle of a pandemic, how could you do that?” she said.

She declined to publicly name these Pence aides but said there was consistent pressure from Pence’s senior officials to focus more on the economy and the reelection campaign. She added that she felt Pence’s top officials often showed derision toward the administration’s medical experts.

Asked about her own regrets, Troye said that she wished she would have spoken out internally more often and that she had wrestled with many “sleepless nights” about her actions and time in the administration.

“I wished I had been more aggressive in fighting internal forces that were working against the CDC and other policies for the president’s personal agenda,” she said. “I wish I would have been more aggressive with the staff on the vice president’s team and some of the president’s staff.”

 

Kilde: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/olivia-troye-coronavirus-white-house/2020/09/17/d3f67ede-f8ed-11ea-a510-f57d8ce76e11_story.html

 

NY Times:

Former Trump officials back Biden, saying the president is a weak leader who mismanaged the virus response.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/us/elections/republicans-former-trump-officials-biden.html

 

Fra Jake Tapper/The Lead/CNN US i kveld:

Ex-task force member: Trump only cares about reelection  [video]
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/09/17/trump-coronavirus-task-force-troye-didnt-care-re-election-tapper-lead-vpx.cnn

 

Olivia Troye er del av en gruppe startet i august sammen med flere andre tidligere medlemmer av administrasjonen og andre republikanere:

Republican Political Alliance for Integrity and Reform
https://repair45.org

 

Olivia Troye forteller kort om dette selv i en video fra "Republican Voters Against Trump", publisert i dag:

 

Endret 17. september 2020 av xRun

[debattklovn]

CNN: Joe Bidens reklame redigerer president Trump ut av kontekst og er villedende om hva har sagt om COVID-19. 

Og: President Trump oppretter en kommisjon som skal bekjempe innføring av venstrevridd historie i skoleverket. 

 

[jjkoggan]

debattklovn skrev (1 time siden):

 

Og: President Trump oppretter en kommisjon som skal bekjempe innføring av venstrevridd historie i skoleverket. 

 

Eller minimisering av høyrevriddhistorie som ignorer nesten alt annet enn hvite perspektiver og dermed promoterer rasisme.  
 

Is the point of history class to introduce young Americans to their heritage of heroes, the glories of American history? Or is history class supposed to make young people into critical examiners of their society, a true civic education that teaches American young people to question every bit of received wisdom and be ready to change what needs changing?

Hvilke mener du historiebøkene burde lære?

Endret 17. september 2020 av jjkoggan

[Joeal88]

frohmage skrev (22 timer siden):

Han har ikke greid å sette tredje verdenskrig ordentlig igang enda, men resten stemmer vel greit.

På hvilken måte er Trump lik Hitler? På hvilken måte har Trump ødelagt USAs økonomi, på hvilken måte er Trump fascistisk diktator? på hvilken måte har Trump tatt vekk folks rettigheter? på hvilken måte har Trump fengslet svarte og homofile?

Du fremstår ikke spesielt smart med slike kommentarer.

[Joeal88]

jjkoggan skrev (36 minutter siden):

Eller minimisering av høyrevriddhistorie som ignorer nesten alt annet enn hvite perspektiver og dermed promoterer rasisme.  
 

Is the point of history class to introduce young Americans to their heritage of heroes, the glories of American history? Or is history class supposed to make young people into critical examiners of their society, a true civic education that teaches American young people to question every bit of received wisdom and be ready to change what needs changing?

Hvilke mener du historiebøkene burde lære?

Er det rasisme og promotere de hvites historie? 

[Joeal88]

En sak som jeg stusser over ved dette valget er hvor sent debattene skal starte, at første debatten finner sted først 29 september er i seineste laget. Er også pussig at de som skal holde de tre debattene er alle velkjente demokrater. Men uansett, Trump kommer til og begrave Biden i enhver debatt.

[frohmage]

Joeal88 skrev (3 minutter siden):

På hvilken måte er Trump lik Hitler? På hvilken måte har Trump ødelagt USAs økonomi, på hvilken måte er Trump fascistisk diktator?

Vet at han forsøker å bestemme hvor mye av sannheten befolkningen skal få greie på. Nå ved "undervisningsreform", tidligere ved å holde tett om hva han visste om pandemien. I tillegg diskrediterer han alt av kritisk presse.

Joeal88 skrev (4 minutter siden):

på hvilken måte har Trump tatt vekk folks rettigheter? på hvilken måte har Trump fengslet svarte og homofile?

Ved måten han har håndtert BLM, og hvordan han har endret regler for kjønn i militæret.

Joeal88 skrev (5 minutter siden):

Du fremstår ikke spesielt smart med slike kommentarer.

Fillern.

[ism_InnleggNO]

1 hour ago, debattklovn said:

Og: President Trump oppretter en kommisjon som skal bekjempe innføring av venstrevridd historie i skoleverket.

Presidenten oppretter en "kommisjon" for å innføre indoktrinering i skoleverket (som er dårlig nok fra før av). Tragisk.

[Joeal88]

frohmage skrev (20 minutter siden):

Vet at han forsøker å bestemme hvor mye av sannheten befolkningen skal få greie på. Nå ved "undervisningsreform", tidligere ved å holde tett om hva han visste om pandemien. I tillegg diskrediterer han alt av kritisk presse.

Ved måten han har håndtert BLM, og hvordan han har endret regler for kjønn i militæret.

Fillern.

1. Aha, så Trump er altså fascistisk diktator fordi han dvs endrer undervisningsopplegget og at han ikke forteller alt til folket og til pressen. Kan du fortelle en statsleder som i januar/februar gikk ut og advarte befolkningen om og at dette er en global krise, og at man må holde seg mest mulig innendørs? Pressen styres av sosialistiske globalister, og pressen har vært motstandere av Trump siden dag 1. Den venstrevridde pressen var også sterkt kritiske til andre republikanere som f.eks Reagan, Bush sr/jr, Cheney og Grinrich. Derimot så er/var demokrater som Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Hillary, AOC, Biden og Kamala alle feilfrie guder som ikke kan bli hyllet nok i følge pressen. 

2. De fleste og de største opptøyene som følge av BLM/Antifa har funnet sted i demokratisk styrte byer/delstater, hvor presidenten har lite makt uten tillatelse fra guvernøren. Når det gjelder damer i militæret, så er det vitenskapelig bevist at kvinner er mer til hinder enn hjelp i militæret.

3. I motsetning til deg, så lar ikke jeg meg påvirkes - eller rettere sagt hjernevaskes så pass lett.

Endret 17. september 2020 av Joeal88

[ism_InnleggNO]

2 minutes ago, Joeal88 said:

3. I motsetning til deg, så lar ikke jeg meg påvirkes - eller rettere sagt hjernevaskes så pass lett.

*fnis*

[jjkoggan]

Joeal88 skrev (1 time siden):

Er det rasisme og promotere de hvites historie? 

Er det rasisme og promotere bare de svartes historie?

[Joeal88]

jjkoggan skrev (6 timer siden):

Er det rasisme og promotere bare de svartes historie?

Har jeg påstått det? Slutt og dra frem rasismekortet hver eneste gang.

[jjkoggan]

Joeal88 skrev (3 timer siden):

Har jeg påstått det? Slutt og dra frem rasismekortet hver eneste gang.

Jeg har ikke sagt at du har påstått det.
 

Du svarte ikke spørsmålet.  Historie som ekskluderer eller minimiserer perspektiver fra andre raser gir et falsk bilde og er rasediskriminerende. 
 

jeg lærte Amerikansk historie på grunnskolen på en skole hvor svarte elever ble forbudt, de gikk på den svarte skolen.  Jeg lærte lite om svartes perspektiv både fordi de ble ekskluderte på skolen og fordi det sto lite om dem på historiebøkene.  Det ga inntrykk at de var ikke så viktig som oss hvite

[debattklovn]

12 hours ago, jjkoggan said:

Is the point of history class to introduce young Americans to their heritage of heroes, the glories of American history? Or is history class supposed to make young people into critical examiners of their society, a true civic education that teaches American young people to question every bit of received wisdom and be ready to change what needs changing?

Hvilke mener du historiebøkene burde lære?

Man må kunne ha balanse og vise både negtive og positive historiskem øyeblikk. 
1619 project er imidlertid pro-svart og antihvit, og er i seg selv rasistisk. 


 

[debattklovn]

8 minutes ago, jjkoggan said:

jeg lærte Amerikansk historie på grunnskolen på en skole hvor svarte elever ble forbudt, de gikk på den svarte skolen.  Jeg lærte lite om svartes perspektiv både fordi de ble ekskluderte på skolen og fordi det sto lite om dem på historiebøkene.  Det ga inntrykk at de var ikke så viktig som oss hvite

Jeg kan garantere at de ikke lærer det samme på skolen idag... 

[jjkoggan]

debattklovn skrev (1 minutt siden):

Jeg kan garantere at de ikke lærer det samme på skolen idag... 

Den samme segregeringen skjer idag på den byen, hvite har deres egne skole som koster for mye for de fleste svarte og historiebøkene har ikke forandret mye fra hvites perspektiv 

[ism_InnleggNO]

12 minutes ago, debattklovn said:

1619 project er imidlertid pro-svart og antihvit, og er i seg selv rasistisk.

For noe tull! Selvsagt er det ikke det.