Klimahysteriet

[тurbonєℓℓo]

Om du vet hva det er, hvorfor spør du meg om en rekke ting er anerkjente tidsskrift, der endel av det ikke er det? Anerkjente tiddskrift/journaler er ett godt forståelig begrep. Har du lest en eneste artikkel i ett anerkjent tidsskrift om klimaforskning?

Spurte deg om hva 'du legger i det'. Jeg spurte ikke 'hva er det?'.

Anyway: Jeg har ikke lest så mange anerkjente tidskrifter om klimaforskning som da underbygger og beviser at det finnes menneskeskapte klimaendringer. Det er også derfor jeg spør om du har noen gode å vise meg.

 

Forskningen ligger klar, vis deg kilder? Prøver du å si at det er vanskelig å finne kilder?

Jeg sier at du snakker mye, om kilder, og om beviser, uten å komme med noe. Jeg vil se de aktuelle som du tenker på, og som du mener er anerkjente osv.

 

 

Om du faktisk er genuint interessert i noe annet enn å mase om dine egne fordommer, så tar det deg liten tid å spore opp kilder.

Det er jo rart at du ikke har kommet med en eneste kilde da, når det tar så kort tid.

Bedre å bare komme med det med en gang. =)

Fordommer? Vel, jeg har bare ingen tro på at politikere eller staten vil ha noen mulighet til å påvirke været.

 

Dette er ikke oppsiktvekkende obskure påstander, det er ting det gjøres masse forskning på. Hvor har du prøvd å finne kilder før siden du ikke har klart det?

 

 

AtW

Her... Jeg har forsøkt å få kilder av de som påstår og påstår, og snakker om kildene som da ikke har kommet med noen kilder for sine påstander.

[ATWindsor]

 

Om du vet hva det er, hvorfor spør du meg om en rekke ting er anerkjente tidsskrift, der endel av det ikke er det? Anerkjente tiddskrift/journaler er ett godt forståelig begrep. Har du lest en eneste artikkel i ett anerkjent tidsskrift om klimaforskning?

Spurte deg om hva 'du legger i det'. Jeg spurte ikke 'hva er det?'.

Anyway: Jeg har ikke lest så mange anerkjente tidskrifter om klimaforskning som da underbygger og beviser at det finnes menneskeskapte klimaendringer. Det er også derfor jeg spør om du har noen gode å vise meg.

 

Forskningen ligger klar, vis deg kilder? Prøver du å si at det er vanskelig å finne kilder?

Jeg sier at du snakker mye, om kilder, og om beviser, uten å komme med noe. Jeg vil se de aktuelle som du tenker på, og som du mener er anerkjente osv.

 

 

Om du faktisk er genuint interessert i noe annet enn å mase om dine egne fordommer, så tar det deg liten tid å spore opp kilder.

Det er jo rart at du ikke har kommet med en eneste kilde da, når det tar så kort tid.

Bedre å bare komme med det med en gang. =)

Fordommer? Vel, jeg har bare ingen tro på at politikere eller staten vil ha noen mulighet til å påvirke været.

 

Dette er ikke oppsiktvekkende obskure påstander, det er ting det gjøres masse forskning på. Hvor har du prøvd å finne kilder før siden du ikke har klart det?

 

 

AtW

Her... Jeg har forsøkt å få kilder av de som påstår og påstår, og snakker om kildene som da ikke har kommet med noen kilder for sine påstander.

 

 

Jeg legger i det det er, det er ett tydelig begrep, det er ikke noe annet å legge i det. Du spør ikke noen "hva du legger i bil", om noen spør om du eier en bil.

 

Har du lest en eneste artikkel om dette i ett anerkjent tidskrift? Ja eller nei? Om ja, har du ett eller to eksempler på hva du har lest? Du formulerer deg med vilje uklart her, derfor tror jeg du prøver å skjule at du ikke har lest noen.

 

Så du er mao mer opptatt av diskusjonkverrulering enn å faktisk finne ut av ting? Det er nettopp det som er poenget mitt, maset ditt om å få kilder er ett symptom på at du ikke ønsker å finne ut av hva forskningen sier, men du ønsker å bruke det som ett billig diskusjonpoeng. Men om du vil ha referanser du kan lese, så kan du se på referanselista til Wikipedia-siden om Global Warming, som har litt diverse referanser om forskjellige temaer innen feltet, eller du kan se på IPCC4-rapporten, (physical science-delen), om du ikke er enig i oppsummeringen som er gjort her, så er det mengder av referanser du kan se på.

 

AtW

[тurbonєℓℓo]

Jeg legger i det det er, det er ett tydelig begrep, det er ikke noe annet å legge i det. Du spør ikke noen "hva du legger i bil", om noen spør om du eier en bil.

Jeg var ute etter din forståelse. Hva du legger i det og mener med det.

Du svarte vel ganske greit på det. Men det er ikke kommet noen eksempler på hva jeg er ute etter og har spurt om.

 

Har du lest en eneste artikkel om dette i ett anerkjent tidskrift? Ja eller nei? Om ja, har du ett eller to eksempler på hva du har lest? Du formulerer deg med vilje uklart her, derfor tror jeg du prøver å skjule at du ikke har lest noen.

Jeg har ikke lest noen. Er det så vanskelig å komme med noe jeg spør om?

Du sier jo at du har svært gode kilder, og så spør jeg om du kan vise til det.

Er dette det samme som å forsøke å sjule at jeg ikke har lest noen?

Det jeg har lest er noen få artikler på forskning.no så har jeg sett på litt i den linken jeg har postet i TS.

 

Så du er mao mer opptatt av diskusjonkverrulering enn å faktisk finne ut av ting?

Er jo du som ser ut til å være dette, i og med at du ikke kommer med de kildene og journalene som du påstår å sitte på, men som du ikke vil dele med meg og andre her inne, på direkte spørsmål. Jeg vil ha noe konkret, fra deg...

Jeg vil ha de kildene du tenker på. Det er vel sikkert flere. Og de jeg finner kan være noe du ikke anerkjenner som bra kilde, osv.

 

 

Det er nettopp det som er poenget mitt, maset ditt om å få kilder er ett symptom på at du ikke ønsker å finne ut av hva forskningen sier, men du ønsker å bruke det som ett billig diskusjonpoeng.

Kan det være fordi du ikke har lest noe selv om dette, at det ender opp med bare snakk fra den kanten?

 

 

Men om du vil ha referanser du kan lese, så kan du se på referanselista til Wikipedia-siden om Global Warming, som har litt diverse referanser om forskjellige temaer innen feltet, eller du kan se på IPCC4-rapporten, (physical science-delen), om du ikke er enig i oppsummeringen som er gjort her, så er det mengder av referanser du kan se på.

 

AtW

Wikipedia... Du er nå søt også da.

Kom med noen anerkjente journaler nå, i stedet for å oppfordre meg til å gå på wikipedia å rote der.

[ATWindsor]

Sier ordet "referanseliste" deg noe? Jeg ba deg sjekke referanslista på wikipedia-artikkelen. Og det framstår som mildt latterlig å klage over wikipedia som kilde generelt (uten at den var brukt som det i dette tilfellet), når du selv antakelig ikke vet særlig om emnet eller har lest en eneste artikkel om det. Om det er tyngre artikler du vil ha er det plenty i referanselista til wiki-artikkelen og IPCC-rapporten som jeg skrev, ikke kom her å lat som det ikke er det. Du trenger ikke å lese "mine" kilder, du trenger bare å se på de anerkjente kildene hva de sier, ikke hør på meg, hør på forskningen.

 

AtW

Endret 22. august 2014 av ATWindsor

[тurbonєℓℓo]

Sier ordet "referanseliste" deg noe? Jeg ba deg sjekke referanslista på wikipedia-artikkelen. Og det framstår som mildt latterlig å klage over wikipedia som kilde generelt (uten at den var brukt som det i dette tilfellet), når du selv antakelig ikke vet særlig om emnet eller har lest en eneste artikkel om det. Om det er tyngre artikler du vil ha er det plenty i referanselista til wiki-artikkelen og IPCC-rapporten som jeg skrev, ikke kom her å lat som det ikke er det. Du trenger ikke å lese "mine" kilder, du trenger bare å se på de anerkjente kildene hva de sier, ikke hør på meg, hør på forskningen.

 

AtW

Jeg vil ha et eksempel fra deg som da underbygger dine påstander i denne debatten. En god en.

Du har snakket mye i denne tråden, men det har ikke kommet noen direkte link til en journal du har snakket så varmt om. Så må du være klar på hva slags argument eller påstand fra meg som er feil, og forklare hvorfor osv.

 

[ATWindsor]

 

Sier ordet "referanseliste" deg noe? Jeg ba deg sjekke referanslista på wikipedia-artikkelen. Og det framstår som mildt latterlig å klage over wikipedia som kilde generelt (uten at den var brukt som det i dette tilfellet), når du selv antakelig ikke vet særlig om emnet eller har lest en eneste artikkel om det. Om det er tyngre artikler du vil ha er det plenty i referanselista til wiki-artikkelen og IPCC-rapporten som jeg skrev, ikke kom her å lat som det ikke er det. Du trenger ikke å lese "mine" kilder, du trenger bare å se på de anerkjente kildene hva de sier, ikke hør på meg, hør på forskningen.

 

AtW

Jeg vil ha et eksempel fra deg som da underbygger dine påstander i denne debatten. En god en.

Du har snakket mye i denne tråden, men det har ikke kommet noen direkte link til en journal du har snakket så varmt om. Så må du være klar på hva slags argument eller påstand fra meg som er feil, og forklare hvorfor osv.

 

 

 

Jeg har gitt deg lange referanselister som underbygger at konsensus blant forskere er at det er menneskeskapt global oppvarming på gang, eller forstår du ikke hva en referanseliste er? Er du virkelig opptatt av å finne ut av hva forskningen sier, eller er du opptatt den latterlige kranglingen din? Hva med dette oppkommet av kunnskap er det som ikke er godt nok for deg? En direkte lenke til en Journal? Vil du har navnet på en anerkjent journal?

 

Hør her turbonello; Har kutter jeg til sakens kjerne: Du kan nesten ingenting om det, du har pga politikk bestemt det for hva du ønsker og tror er riktig, og du er arrogant nok til å mene at folk som bruker livet sitt til å forske på dette tar feil.

 

Du later som du er interessert i å finne ut av det, men du er ikke det fnugg interessert i å ta til det data om dette, om du ikke er fornøyd med å bare anta at konsensus er rett, du kan som ett utgangspunkt lese IPCC-rapporten sin vitenskaplige del, som gir en grei oversikt og ett greit utgangspunkt. Men det kommer du selvsagt ikke til å gjøre, fordi du ikke er interessert i fakta, du er interessert i å underbygge ting som støtter opp om den politiske ideologien som du støtter. Det hele er ett latterlige skue.

 

Om du mener det er feil TA DEG SAMMEN og les litt om temaet på egenhånd, informasjonen er lett tilgjengelig, jeg har vist deg hvor.

 

AtW

Endret 22. august 2014 av ATWindsor

[jjkoggan]

 

Hadde ikke til intensjon å latterliggjøre noen eller noe som helst.

 

Vennligst forklar din intensjon. Du presentert ingen argument så det blir meget vanskelig å vite. Saklig debatt angriper argumentet ikke personen og sin kunnskap.

 

Du er inne på sakens kjerne hva angår debatten rundt klimahysteriet.

Det dagligdagse bruken av ordet Teori er noe helt annet en begrepet vitenskapelig teori, før noe kan kalles for en teori er dette en hypotese. "Status" som teori kommer ikke før hypotesen er testet nok. Bevismengden avhenger da selvfølgelig av omfanget av hypotesens påstander.

IPCC's klima hypotese er støttet av beviset at temperaturen har steget noe i takt med C02 konsentrasjonen i atmosferen og av at C02 er en Klimagass.

Dette er et noe tynt grunnlag for å kalle dette en vitenskapelig teori mener nå jeg..

Enig, dette er ingen "vitenskapelig teori", men vi diskuterer oss ikke som forskere og bruker ordet på en annen måte som legmenn.

[тurbonєℓℓo]

 

*snipp*

Igjen et svar uten et snev av hva jeg spurte om.

Lettvinnt å påstå alt det du har påstått i denne debatten, for så å bare søke på Global Warming, på google, for så å klikke deg inn på wikipedia og komme tilbake hit å peke på en refferanseliste der... Og late som om du har vunnet debatten, osv.

 

Du har sannsynligvis ikke sett på noe av det selv...

Jeg ser ikke noen grunn til videre snikksnakk med deg, for jeg får ikke noen linker til noen journal eller liknende som du har snakket så varmt om...

 

Og ikke kom med det pisset der om at jeg bare er interessert i å underbygge ting som støtter opp om min politiske ideologi. You see, min ideologi er ikke avhengig av dette.

Tror du det tror du svært feil. Om det er noe sånt som menneskeskapte klimaendringer, så er min ideologi bedre enn din også her, slik jeg ser det...

Endret 22. august 2014 av turbonello

[ATWindsor]

 

 

*snipp*

Igjen et svar uten et snev av hva jeg spurte om.

Lettvinnt å påstå alt det du har påstått i denne debatten, for så å bare søke på Global Warming, på google, for så å klikke deg inn på wikipedia og komme tilbake hit å peke på en refferanseliste der... Og late som om du har vunnet debatten, osv.

 

Du har sannsynligvis ikke sett på noe av det selv...

Jeg ser ikke noen grunn til videre snikksnakk med deg, for jeg får ikke noen linker til noen journal eller liknende som du har snakket så varmt om...

 

Og ikke kom med det pisset der om at jeg bare er interessert i å underbygge ting som støtter opp om min politiske ideologi. You see, min ideologi er ikke avhengig av dette.

Tror du det tror du svært feil. Om det er noe sånt som menneskeskapte klimaendringer, så er min ideologi bedre enn din også her, slik jeg ser det...

 

 

Det har ingenting med å vinne debatten å gjøre, det er ett godt utgangpunkt om man vil sette seg dypere inn i materien, at det er enkelt å finne fram referanser er sant, det er enkelt, det er forsket ganske mye på det. Les IPCC-rapporten da, om du ikke liker wikipedia sine refranser.

 

Du viser nok engang at du er totalt uinteressert i å ta til deg informasjon om dette, du er ikke nysgjerrig på hva vitenskapen sier, eller opptatt av å finne sannheten, du er interessert i å "vinne en debatt"

 

Bare sånn for å feie vekk den tøvete påstanden din om at det som hindrer deg er at du må gå ett ekestre museklikk, så poster jeg her listen over referanser for klimamodellering her i tråden

 

 

 

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[тurbonєℓℓo]

 

 

*snipp*

Igjen et svar uten et snev av hva jeg spurte om.

Lettvinnt å påstå alt det du har påstått i denne debatten, for så å bare søke på Global Warming, på google, for så å klikke deg inn på wikipedia og komme tilbake hit å peke på en refferanseliste der... Og late som om du har vunnet debatten, osv.

 

Du har sannsynligvis ikke sett på noe av det selv...

Jeg ser ikke noen grunn til videre snikksnakk med deg, for jeg får ikke noen linker til noen journal eller liknende som du har snakket så varmt om...

 

Og ikke kom med det pisset der om at jeg bare er interessert i å underbygge ting som støtter opp om min politiske ideologi. You see, min ideologi er ikke avhengig av dette.

Tror du det tror du svært feil. Om det er noe sånt som menneskeskapte klimaendringer, så er min ideologi bedre enn din også her, slik jeg ser det...

 

Det har ingenting med å vinne debatten å gjøre, det er ett godt utgangpunkt om man vil sette seg dypere inn i materien, at det er enkelt å finne fram referanser er sant, det er enkelt, det er forsket ganske mye på det. Les IPCC-rapporten da, om du ikke liker wikipedia sine refranser.

 

Du viser nok engang at du er totalt uinteressert i å ta til deg informasjon om dette, du er ikke nysgjerrig på hva vitenskapen sier, eller opptatt av å finne sannheten, du er interessert i å "vinne en debatt"

 

Nei. Det er du som påstår å ha så mye kunnskap om dette, og forsøker å latterliggjøre, men så klarer du ikke annet enn å henvise til en refferanseliste på Wikipedia. Du klarer ikke selv å møte argumentene mine, men dumper en refferanseliste du har funnet på wikipedia etter å ha søkt på 'global oppvarming'.

 

I denne debatten har du snakket mye, uten å egentlig bidratt med så mye.

Vært svær i kjeften. Hvem som helst kan jo gjøre det du har gjort...

 

Den informasjonen du ber meg ta til meg, er altså det du har funnet på wikipedia og som du helt sikkert ikke selv har satt deg noe særlig inn i. For da kunne du jo ha forklart fritt ut i fra disse kildene hvordan tingene henger i sammen og fungerer, med kildehenvisninger.

 

Jeg har spurt om ting. Stilt spørsmålstegn ved ting. Men dette klarer du ikke svare på, men bare henvise til en refferanseliste med 20-30 talls kilder som jeg da må pløye igjennom...

 

Bare sånn for å feie vekk den tøvete påstanden din om at det som hindrer deg er at du må gå ett ekestre museklikk, så poster jeg her listen over referanser for klimamodellering her i tråden

 

 

 

*kopi paste av wikipedias refferanseliste*

 

 

Jeg spurte ikke om en refferanseliste. Jeg ville ha et eksempel på en jornual som da beviser og underbygger dine påstander. Jeg har heller ikke sagt at "DE ER FEIL", jeg spør om du kan legge frem noe fakta på bordet...

[Gjest Bruker-95147]

Har det gått over? Hører ikke så mye om det lenger.

 

 

Nei, vi hører ikke så mye lenger, uten å måtte lete litt, og det er vel fordi det er kjedelig å høre om vår egen destruksjon. Vi hørte ikke om finanskrisen heller, men den kom nå likevel, og ingen må si at det ikke var mange som advarte og forsøkte å få oss til å lytte, men som sagt: det er så kjedelig å høre på sånne som sier det vi ikke liker å høre - vi vil helst bare få spise designer burgeren vår, og gamble videre ..

[Shruggie]

 

Anyway: Jeg har ikke lest så mange anerkjente tidskrifter om klimaforskning som da underbygger og beviser at det finnes menneskeskapte klimaendringer. Det er også derfor jeg spør om du har noen gode å vise

Så hvorfor fokuserer du så mye tid og krefter på å diskutere dette? Du påstår at du er "kritisk", men du leser ikke det du er kritisk til? Er det ikke bedre å sette seg inn i temaet før man velger å diskutere det offentlig, fremfor å presentere en påstand? Og hvorfor debatterer du et tema i 11 dager uten å nyansere din egen mening, når du selv vet at du ikke har nok informasjon om temaet?

[ATWindsor]

 

 

 

*snipp*

Igjen et svar uten et snev av hva jeg spurte om.

Lettvinnt å påstå alt det du har påstått i denne debatten, for så å bare søke på Global Warming, på google, for så å klikke deg inn på wikipedia og komme tilbake hit å peke på en refferanseliste der... Og late som om du har vunnet debatten, osv.

 

Du har sannsynligvis ikke sett på noe av det selv...

Jeg ser ikke noen grunn til videre snikksnakk med deg, for jeg får ikke noen linker til noen journal eller liknende som du har snakket så varmt om...

 

Og ikke kom med det pisset der om at jeg bare er interessert i å underbygge ting som støtter opp om min politiske ideologi. You see, min ideologi er ikke avhengig av dette.

Tror du det tror du svært feil. Om det er noe sånt som menneskeskapte klimaendringer, så er min ideologi bedre enn din også her, slik jeg ser det...

 

Det har ingenting med å vinne debatten å gjøre, det er ett godt utgangpunkt om man vil sette seg dypere inn i materien, at det er enkelt å finne fram referanser er sant, det er enkelt, det er forsket ganske mye på det. Les IPCC-rapporten da, om du ikke liker wikipedia sine refranser.

 

Du viser nok engang at du er totalt uinteressert i å ta til deg informasjon om dette, du er ikke nysgjerrig på hva vitenskapen sier, eller opptatt av å finne sannheten, du er interessert i å "vinne en debatt"

 

Nei. Det er du som påstår å ha så mye kunnskap om dette, og forsøker å latterliggjøre, men så klarer du ikke annet enn å henvise til en refferanseliste på Wikipedia. Du klarer ikke selv å møte argumentene mine, men dumper en refferanseliste du har funnet på wikipedia etter å ha søkt på 'global oppvarming'.

 

I denne debatten har du snakket mye, uten å egentlig bidratt med så mye.

Vært svær i kjeften. Hvem som helst kan jo gjøre det du har gjort...

 

Den informasjonen du ber meg ta til meg, er altså det du har funnet på wikipedia og som du helt sikkert ikke selv har satt deg noe særlig inn i. For da kunne du jo ha forklart fritt ut i fra disse kildene hvordan tingene henger i sammen og fungerer, med kildehenvisninger.

 

Jeg har spurt om ting. Stilt spørsmålstegn ved ting. Men dette klarer du ikke svare på, men bare henvise til en refferanseliste med 20-30 talls kilder som jeg da må pløye igjennom...

 

Bare sånn for å feie vekk den tøvete påstanden din om at det som hindrer deg er at du må gå ett ekestre museklikk, så poster jeg her listen over referanser for klimamodellering her i tråden

 

 

 

*kopi paste av wikipedias refferanseliste*

 

 

Jeg spurte ikke om en refferanseliste. Jeg ville ha et eksempel på en jornual som da beviser og underbygger dine påstander. Jeg har heller ikke sagt at "DE ER FEIL", jeg spør om du kan legge frem noe fakta på bordet...

 

 

Jeg har foreslått en fin oppsummering for deg, nemlig IPCC-rapporten, den er ett ok sted å begynne om du vil ha noe faglig å sette tenna i. Dette er en oppsummerende rapport jeg har nevnt for deg, begynn der, se hva forskningen sier, og gjør deg opp en mening om det. Min mening er irrelevant, det du må se på er hva forskere mener om saken. (referansene jeg har postet er forøvrig ikke fra wikipedia). Og er det liksom ett argument for noe at det er enkelt å finne referanser om global oppvarming? Det burde jo være bra, din innsatsvilje, om du faktisk ønsker å sette deg inn i dette på egenhånd, virker minimal.

 

Eller spør jeg igjen om du vet hva en journal er for noe? Det virker ikke sånn når du ber om en "Journal som beviser mine påstander".

 

AtW

[тurbonєℓℓo]

 

Har det gått over? Hører ikke så mye om det lenger.

Nei, vi hører ikke så mye lenger, uten å måtte lete litt, og det er vel fordi det er kjedelig å høre om vår egen destruksjon. Vi hørte ikke om finanskrisen heller, men den kom nå likevel, og ingen må si at det ikke var mange som advarte og forsøkte å få oss til å lytte, men som sagt: det er så kjedelig å høre på sånne som sier det vi ikke liker å høre - vi vil helst bare få spise designer burgeren vår, og gamble videre ..

 

Joda. Mises forutså og advarte mot finanskrisen som ville komme som et resultat av politikernes økonomiske politikk, og kom med et utrolig godt alternativ: Rendyrket Laissez faire.

Men det får bli en annen debatt.

 

 

Anyway: Jeg har ikke lest så mange anerkjente tidskrifter om klimaforskning som da underbygger og beviser at det finnes menneskeskapte klimaendringer. Det er også derfor jeg spør om du har noen gode å vise

Så hvorfor fokuserer du så mye tid og krefter på å diskutere dette?

 

Fordi jeg liker å lese andres tanker i forbindelse med dette.

Da vanlige folk, som er her på forumet. Jeg skriver også på forumet fordi jeg er glad i å skrive. Og jeg kan jo lære en god del av å diskutere med andre også.

 

Du påstår at du er "kritisk", men du leser ikke det du er kritisk til?

Joda. Jeg har jo lest noe, og hørt en del om det.

Jeg er kanskje heller ikke så kritisk som jeg kanskje har gitt uttrykk for. For min del kan det godt eksistere menneskeskapte klimaendringer. Jeg kan forestille meg det.

Men jeg er altså ikke helt overbevist. Og da er vel målet med denne debatten å oppfordre til å komme med så overbevisende argumenter og kilder som mulig. I alle fall, noe i den duren der. Jeg merker meg også at de aller fleste som uttrykker skepsis, blir forsøkt latterliggjort osv. Det er forskere som da blir diskreditert osv. Dette er jo åpenbart noe som vil påvirke "konsensus", i og med at alle som åpner kjeften sin, og er kritiske, vil bli forsøkt uthengt og latterliggjort osv.

 

Dessuten er det en del ting som er relatert til klimaforskningen. Mye forskjelli politikk. Som da selvagt ikke nødvendigvis vil fungere noe særlig bra og være noen god løsning (...). Så har man økonomiske interesser osv. Om du ser i debatten så har jeg jo ikke brukt så mye tid på å benekte klimaendringene osv, men jeg har lagt vekt på andre relaterte ting, som f.eks. disse sterke økonomiske interessene. Og muligheten til å leve godt på subsidier osv.

 

Det jeg forsøker å si: Selv om en ting er sant, er det ikke dermed sagt at alle påstander om samme tingen er sant.

Og selv om noe er sant, så er det ikke dermed sagt at alle løsninger er gode, på problemet (...).

 

Så det er ikke bare en diskusjon hvorvidt noe er sant eller ikke sant.

 

Man bruker jo klimapolitikk i en politisk kamp også, for å innføre helt urelevante ting som ikke har noe med klimaet å gjøre.

 

Er det ikke bedre å sette seg inn i temaet før man velger å diskutere det offentlig, fremfor å presentere en påstand? Og hvorfor debatterer du et tema i 11 dager uten å nyansere din egen mening, når du selv vet at du ikke har nok informasjon om temaet?

Men jeg har jo satt meg litt inn i det...

Jeg har bare ikke sett noen klare beviser og dokumentasjon, og forklaringer som er overbevisende fra andre brukere her inne. Noe jeg har spurt om mange mange mange ganger. Jeg blir bare møtt med ridicule.

[Shruggie]

Forskere blir latterliggjort nå. De ble ikke latterliggjort for 10 år siden, da ble de vennlig oppfordret til å backe opp påstandene sine. Hvis du prøver å bevise via forskning i dag at sola går rundt jorden, så vil du også bli latterliggjort - for konklusjonen er allerede tatt. Det er for sent å prøve å motbevise det nå, det burde du gjort på 90-tallet, da dette faktisk ble debattert seriøst.

Endret 22. august 2014 av Shruggie

[Shruggie]

 

Er det ikke bedre å sette seg inn i temaet før man velger å diskutere det offentlig, fremfor å presentere en påstand? Og hvorfor debatterer du et tema i 11 dager uten å nyansere din egen mening, når du selv vet at du ikke har nok informasjon om temaet?

Men jeg har jo satt meg litt inn i det...

Jeg har bare ikke sett noen klare beviser og dokumentasjon, og forklaringer som er overbevisende fra andre brukere her inne. Noe jeg har spurt om mange mange mange ganger. Jeg blir bare møtt med ridicule.

 

Du kommer heller aldri til å SE klare beviser, for du har ikke den utdanningen som er nødvendig for å se de. Du står selvsagt fritt til å prøve å forstå de, men på samme måte som jeg ikke klarer å diagnostisere kreft, så klarer ikke du å diagnostisere klimaforandring. Eller har jeg misforstått noe, og du er faktisk klimatolog...?

[тurbonєℓℓo]

Jeg har foreslått en fin oppsummering for deg, nemlig IPCC-rapporten, den er ett ok sted å begynne om du vil ha noe faglig å sette tenna i. Dette er en oppsummerende rapport jeg har nevnt for deg, begynn der, se hva forskningen sier, og gjør deg opp en mening om det. Min mening er irrelevant, det du må se på er hva forskere mener om saken. (referansene jeg har postet er forøvrig ikke fra wikipedia). Og er det liksom ett argument for noe at det er enkelt å finne referanser om global oppvarming? Det burde jo være bra, din innsatsvilje, om du faktisk ønsker å sette deg inn i dette på egenhånd, virker minimal.

 

Eller spør jeg igjen om du vet hva en journal er for noe? Det virker ikke sånn når du ber om en "Journal som beviser mine påstander".

 

AtW

Jeg skal sette meg mer inn i denne IPCC rapporten.

Så hold your horses. Lurer på om du faktisk har gjort det.

Kan du beskrive det som står skrevet i denne rapporten, sånn generelt sett?

 

 

 

 

Er det ikke bedre å sette seg inn i temaet før man velger å diskutere det offentlig, fremfor å presentere en påstand? Og hvorfor debatterer du et tema i 11 dager uten å nyansere din egen mening, når du selv vet at du ikke har nok informasjon om temaet?

Men jeg har jo satt meg litt inn i det...

Jeg har bare ikke sett noen klare beviser og dokumentasjon, og forklaringer som er overbevisende fra andre brukere her inne. Noe jeg har spurt om mange mange mange ganger. Jeg blir bare møtt med ridicule.

 

Du kommer heller aldri til å SE klare beviser, for du har ikke den utdanningen som er nødvendig for å se de.

 

Jeg har klart å se bevisene for evolusjonsteorien, da burde jeg vel klare å se beviser for menneskeskapte klimaendringer også. Det var jo en utrolig god dokumentar laget av Richard Dawkins om dette, som heter så mye som "The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution".

 

Du står selvsagt fritt til å prøve å forstå de, men på samme måte som jeg ikke klarer å diagnostisere kreft, så klarer ikke du å diagnostisere klimaforandring. Eller har jeg misforstått noe, og du er faktisk klimatolog...?

Det skal ikke være noe problem å forstå noe. Klimatologer er mennesker, ikke overmennesker. Når de har lært noe, så kan alle andre det også.

Så er det det viktigste: Forklaringsmodellene. Evnen til å forklare noe godt til andre slik at det blir forstått, osv. =)

Endret 22. august 2014 av turbonello

[jjkoggan]

Det skal ikke være noe problem å forstå noe. Klimatologer er mennesker, ikke overmennesker. Når de har lært noe, så kan alle andre det også.

Så er det det viktigste: Forklaringsmodellene. Evnen til å forklare noe godt til andre slik at det blir forstått, osv. =)

Lett å forstå prinsippene, vanskelig å gi saklige motargumenter uten ekspertise. Det får du bare når du hører ekspertene angripe hverandres forskning. Sier legen at du har kreft blir det bedre å spørre en annen lege enn naboen om legen tar feil eller ikke. Den første legen kan godt forklare til deg hvorfor han sier du har kreft ,men du har ikk nok ekspertise til å spørre han hvorfor han ikke gjorde et eller annet, eller mistolket noe

 

Du kan godt studere saken og forstår prinsippene godt nok, men dine argumenter blir aldri like saklige som ekspertene i faget. Dine meninger blir mer basert på troverdighet på forskerne enn vitenskaper selv

 

Det er derfor ekspertenes konsensus som teller mest og er det mest sannsynlig måte å vite sannheten.

 

Likevel har jeg inntrykket du vile heller diskutere hvordan folk debatter saken enn vitenskapen selv. Intersannt nok sier NRK at skeptikerne får mer media dekning enn de som støtter AGW!

[тurbonєℓℓo]

 

Det skal ikke være noe problem å forstå noe. Klimatologer er mennesker, ikke overmennesker. Når de har lært noe, så kan alle andre det også.

Så er det det viktigste: Forklaringsmodellene. Evnen til å forklare noe godt til andre slik at det blir forstått, osv. =)

Lett å forstå prinsippene, vanskelig å gi saklige motargumenter uten ekspertise. Det får du bare når du hører ekspertene angripe hverandres forskning. Sier legen at du har kreft blir det bedre å spørre en annen lege enn naboen om legen tar feil eller ikke. Den første legen kan godt forklare til deg hvorfor han sier du har kreft ,men du har ikk nok ekspertise til å spørre han hvorfor han ikke gjorde et eller annet, eller mistolket noe

 

Du kan godt studere saken og forstår prinsippene godt nok, men dine argumenter blir aldri like saklige som ekspertene i faget. Dine meninger blir mer basert på troverdighet på forskerne enn vitenskaper selv

 

Det er derfor ekspertenes konsensus som teller mest og er det mest sannsynlig måte å vite sannheten.

 

Likevel har jeg inntrykket du vile heller diskutere hvordan folk debatter saken enn vitenskapen selv. Intersannt nok sier NRK at skeptikerne får mer media dekning enn de som støtter AGW!

 

Nå er det jo gjerne sånn at når det er motpoler, så blir folk mer interesserte og engasjerte enn om det ikke er det. Man begynner å lete etter argumenter i mot, og på veien dit, så lærer man veldig mye. Noen tror de bare har svaret. Man bare går ut i fra at det "disse ekspertene sier" er riktig. Man tar det som en selvfølge.

 

Jeg kan vise til en stor amerikansk filosof som da tar opp temaet: Belief in belief:

 

 

Forøvrig har jeg fått noen innskytelser angående den rapporten som ATW oppfordret meg å lese:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420783/Worlds-climate-scientists-confess-Global-warming-just-QUARTER-thought--computers-got-effects-greenhouse-gases-wrong.html

 

http://www.thegwpf.org/leaked-ipcc-report-scientists-global-warming-rate-wrong/

 

http://theconversation.com/scientists-confess-the-attack-on-the-ipcc-that-went-terribly-wrong-18496

 

 

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Det er forøvrig mye tåpelige greier som kommer som et resultat av dette.

(Som jeg pleier å si: Det er forskjell på å barbere seg og skjære av seg hodet).

 

 

http://www.dagsavisen.no/nyemeninger/alle_meninger/cat1003/subcat1010/thread304486/

 

"Fra 1.september skal man i EU støvsuge med svakere støvsugere for å redde klimaet. Klimabyråkratene stoler ikke lengre på at DU støvsuger riktig, så det er utstedt et omfattende direktiv. Når kommer dette byråkratiske misfosteret til Norge?"

Endret 22. august 2014 av turbonello

[Kakofoni]

Tips til hvordan forstå kompliserte vitenskapelige konsepter bedre.

 

1. Les en utfyllende artikkel, for eksempel på Wikipedia. Grundig.

 

2. Med beriket ordforråd kan du på et visst nivå lese original forskning. Søk etter den på Google Scholar om det er flere ting du lurer på.