Den russiske aggresjonen mot Ukraina

[Ateist-Lene-Satan]

Russland og hele SNG (tidligere Sovjetiske Republiker) kjenner godt til en person, russiske nett, folk vet mye om ham. Ifølge rykter han er den eneste som er ikke redd å si hva han mener til V. V. Putin og Putin tar han på alvor. Den mannen er svært flink, vet mye og mye av framgangen til nye Russland er hans jobb.

 

Og hvem er den mannen?

 

Han heter Vladislav Surkov, han er en etnisk tsjetsjener- hans nasjonalitet, han kommer fra Russiske republikken Tsjetsjenia. Hans ekte navn er Aslambek Andarbekovitsj Dudaev.

 

Har er et bildet av ham og litt om ham:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov

 

 

PS: Den taktikken som bruker de "grønne mennesker" i Østlge Ukraina liner svært på taktikken som ble brukt av tsjetsjenske motstansbevegelse da de tok 3 store byer i fra russiske styrker i 1996 sommer.

I Grosnyj var det sirka 30 000 tungt bevænede russiske soldater og sirka 1000 tanks og stridsvogner og reserve styrker.

Tsjetsjenske motstandsbevegelse i 1996 sende klare besjeder til sivile i Grosnyj, Argun og Gudermes om å forlate disse byene.

Som viste senere den nye taktikken av tsjetsjenerne var svært effektiv, de omringer med sirka 800-900 menn hele Grosnyj, russere sende extastyrker og omrignet til hele byen, tsjetsjenerne sto mellom og føderale strykrer kjente mye tap både tanks, soldater osv. Og russike net skriver at den opreasjon eller de rare mennesker som overtar offentlige bygg ... den hele planen utviklet av Vladislav Surkov ifølge russere som skriver på russiske nett.

 

Her er Aslambek Dudaev (Vladislav Surkov hjernen til Putins regjering) sammen på fisketur med tsjetsjensk president Ramzan Kadyrov:

 

 

 

Det er svært dårlig når skjer krig, det er sykt, det er umenneskelig!

Håper det ordner seg i Ukraina på en fredelig måte og DEMOKRATIET vinner! Vesten er et lys og rettferdig samfunn. Og krig eller muskler er det sykeste bruke mot fredelig mennesker. Vesten har vist million ganger at fred er den rette veien å redde jorda!

 

Helvete med krig og nei til vold og net til krig!!!! Trist og leit at det noe sånt skjer der(((.

Endret 16. april 2014 av Ateist-Lene-Satan

[Ateist-Lene-Satan]

Demokratiet er den eneste veien som redder verden!

[soldatfrank]

Det som er spennende, blir å se hva utfallet av møtet i morgen bringer (Personlig tror jeg ikke vi kommer noen vei med det, men jeg håper på å bli positivt overrasket).

 

-Russland stiller med krav om at Ukraina skal føderaliseres, og at det skal grunnlovfestes at Ukraina aldri kan bli en del av NATO eller nærme seg EU. (Jeg finner det i grunn paradoksalt at Russland skal diktere hva Ukraina skal/kan gjøre)

 

- Ukraina på sin side krever at Russland respekterer landegrensene og ikke bryter Ukraina's teritorielle suverenitet. Samtidig krever de at Russland slutter med provokasjonene i øst-Ukraina, samt trekker tilbake de 40 000+ innvasjonsstyrkene Russland har plassert opp mot grensen til Ukraina.

 

Regner med at ingen av partene firer på sine krav.

Endret 16. april 2014 av soldatfrank

[arthon]

The Guardian video med tale av Ukrainsk minister som bekrefter at de har arrestert 40 Russiske etterretningsagenter og Ukrainske overløpere som bekrefter at de er rekruttert av den Russiske hær.

 

De sier at formålet er at 100-200 sivile Ukrainere blir drept så vil Russiske styrker passere grensen inne 1-1.5 time.

 

Altså provosere et blodbad så regulære Russiske styrker har en unnskyldning til å invadere.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/apr/16/ukraine-evidence-russia-involved-unrest-east-video

 

Ukraine's security service says its counter-intelligence department has found members of the Russian special services involved in unrest in eastern Ukraine. The head of the counter-intelligence department says discussions have been documented involving plans to kill up to 200 people after which Russian forces would invade Ukraine

[arthon]

Det som er spennende, blir å se hva utfallet av møtet i morgen bringer (Personlig tror jeg ikke vi kommer noen vei med det, men jeg håper på å bli positivt overrasket).

Det er ikke sikkert Russland møter - først sa de at de ikke ville stille - så sa de at de ville stille hvis det ikke ble en opptrapping i Ukraina før møtet - spørsmålet da er om Russland provoserer en opptrapping for å ha en unskyldning før møtet............... møtet går i tilfelle uten Russland..............

 

I alle tilfelle blir det mer "we are greatly concerned.........."

 

 

[arthon]

Rule by the mob................

 

Vice News video...........................

 

 

 

Se på slutten av denne videoen fra samme sted 0:50 - hvem som koordinerer det hele........samme Russiske Oberst.............?

 

http://youtu.be/WUgmc3e8AaU

Endret 16. april 2014 av arthon

[arthon]

Russland har planer om å starte Fascist demonstrasjoner vest i Ukraina - bruke Russiske agenter som lager falske demonstrasjoner for å få pressen til å rapportere om Fascist/Nazist demonstrasjoner som propaganda -så pressen blir mer sympatiske til Separatistene i øst-Ukraina - dette er planlagt for slutten av April til Mai 9.

 

Ukrainian MPs warn of Russian provocations in Western Ukraine

[soldatfrank]

Er det noen vet når 4-parts møtet i Genev starter i dag? Og om det evt. Er noen sider som sender live fra møtet?

[arthon]

Er det noen vet når 4-parts møtet i Genev starter i dag? Og om det evt. Er noen sider som sender live fra møtet?

Møtet forgår nå.

[arthon]

Demonstrasjon for forenet Ukraina i #Lugansk. Nå!

Demonstrasjon for forenet Ukraina i #Kramatorsk klokken 18:00 Parkovaya plassen nær aerodome.

Demonstrasjon for forenet Ukraina i #Donetsk kl.18:00 i Pobeda Park

Луганск зараз. Мітынг за адзіную Ўкраіну pic.twitter.com/yDeTB3oNdE

• 
  

Endret 17. april 2014 av arthon

[arthon]

Uttalelser fra Putin i dag tidlig - noen ganske merkelige - såvidt jeg skjønner er det et stort folkemøte på Krim og Putin har talt til folket der (via video link?).

På Krim øker prisene på alt av varer (se Facebook link) og folk er bekymret for dette og mye annet.

 

Putin's uttalelser som de er gjengitt på Twitter.................

 

#Russia state TV starts #Putin call-in show by saying "genocide" of Russians taking place in #Ukraine.

Hostess #Putin call-in q-and-a introduces him by saying "genocide" is taking place in eastern #Ukraine.

 

#Putin says that "green men" were in #Crimea to help transparency of referendum only (!).

#Putin says, former President #Yanukovych didn't run from #Ukraine. He just departured to visit regions (!)

#Putin said ppl from the West are second-class citizens (vest Ukraina?)

#Putin says "ppl in #Crimea will feel better life in a month".

#Putin: We haven't planned anything on Crimea years before, we just executed everything very professionally on the spot

#Putin says "support" for Crimea rejoining decided on based on events, not planned years in advance.

#Putin: Russia never planned any military intervention or annexation of Crimea. We base our actions on the current political situation.

#Putin says people in southeast #Ukraine are worried about their future and their children's future after unconstitutional coup in Kiev

#Putin on Russians in East Ukraine: “It’s all rubbish—they are no Russian divisions in E Ukraine, no special forces or instructors.”

#Putin denies Russian hand behind Ukraine protests. "It's all nonsense. There are no Russian units in Ukraine. These are all citizens."

#Putin says #Russia servicemen make 4 times more than #Ukraine soldiers

#Putin says #Russia will double salaries of public sector employees in #Crimea by the end of July

#Putin: Hope #Ukraine authorities will understand that #Russia couldn't act any other way in #Crimea

#Putin; #Crimea has great ship-building potential and #Russia will expand it, #Putin tells inhabitant of #Sevastopol on live call-in show.

#Putin: Considerable part of Fleet will be moved from Novorossisk to Sevastopol. Crimea has good potential for shipyard, $140 million sent

#Putin on #Crimea:'Nothing was prepared,everything was done off the cuff.'

#Putin; #Crimea Putin says threats to Russian-speakers was "real & palpable." Says it led to people there to think about future & turn to #Russia

#Putin: Kiev needs dialogue w/ E Ukraine, "They go but they meet w ppl THEY appted. They should meet w those who truly represent the people.”

#Putin: Some ppl liked and some didn't Yanuk's decision not to join EU. But those opposed carried out anti-constitutional revolution.

 

(understreket de jeg synes er viktigst)

 

Disse uttalelsene har jeg postet hulter til bulter etter når jeg fant dem - flere vil bli lagt til etter som de kommer.

 

https://twitter.com/Lucian_Kim

Wife of pal Gennady Timchenko couldn't pay for operation because bank card blocked by sanctions. #Putin calls it "human rights violation."

#Putin gives #Ukraine 1 month to settle gas debt before #Russia requires pre-payment, which could lead to disruption in gas transit to #EU.

#Putin says "good acquaintances, friends" hit by sanctions, even though they had no connection to #Crimea. "I'm not ashamed of my friends."

Breaking news: #Putin doesn't want #Alaska back from #US, even if #Russia got ripped off.

#Putin laughs at Amur flood survivor who says he's car enthusiast but doesn't have road to drive it on: "Is this some kind of provocation?"

If West buys less #Russia oil & gas, #Putin says, #SaudiArabia unlikely to risk low prices by producing more oil; #EU too dependent on gas.

Wielding pen, #Putin reassures #Russia pensioners that "not one social program" will be cut to fund #Crimea annexation.

#Crimea costs will come out of #Russia budget reserves, #Putin says. Won't come to more than 100 million rubles ($3 billion).

#Putin confesses that #Crimea annexation was "partially" influenced by #NATO expansion. #Russia can't be squeezed out from Black Sea region.

New #Ukraine govt. is illegitimate, but ministers talking, #Putin says. #Medvedev has spoken with #Yatsenyuk, #Naryshkin with #Turchynov.

#Russia didn't use force to annex #Crimea, #Putin says. "Special formations" were there only to ensure free expression of people's will.

#Putin "very much hopes" he won't have to send troops into #Ukraine after #Russia's Federation Council gave him that option.

Hey, at least none of my critics have been sent to prison camps as in the 1930s, #Putin says. #Ukraine #Russia

Would he run away like #Yanukovych did? #Putin says first job was in #KGB, where he learned to have "total allegiance to people & state."

#Putin praises #Ukraine special forces #Berkut as "honest, very professional, dignified." They deserve respect. #Russia

 

#Putin finally admits that "of course" #Russia servicemen were in #Crimea to defend against #Ukraine nationalists and referendum.

 

"Reset" with #US didn't end with #Crimea; it already ended during #Libya uprising, #Putin says. #Russia

 

When #NATO chief @AndersFoghR was still Denmark PM, he secretly recorded meeting with Putin, then published it, #Putin says.

 

There will be no new Iron Curtain, #Putin says. #PutinQA

 

#Putin reassures #Sochi residents that the rich will vacation in their town while the poor will travel to #Crimea on subsidized tickets.

 

Breaking news: Edward #Snowden addresses #Putin on national call-in show, asks if #Russia collects citizens' data like #NSA does.

#Putin tells #Snowden that #Russia not engaged in mass eavesdropping because special services "under strict control" of govt. and society.

 

 

 

Forskjellige oversettere...................... postet i omvend rekkefølge av timeline......

Mest herfra; https://twitter.com/myroslavapetsa

#Putin: #Crimea will become a donor soon, won't need subsidies. Ukraine authorities artificially made it subsidy-dependent

#Putin forgets about losses by the sanctions when talking on costs of #Crimea annexation, says it's not expensive to pay pensions

Propagandist #Kiselev is back on the stage: NATO has been growing like a cancerous tumor, swallowing former Soviet republics

#Russia's top propagandist Dmitry Kiselev looks really sad to be banned from traveling to Europe. We feel for him:)

Female anchor calls government actions in the East the #Maidan's crusade.

 

#Putin: Constitution (Ukraina?) has to be changed, because current constitution doesn't allow elections when president #Yanukovych is alive

 

#Putin: We might not recognize the elex results when the candidates from the East are being attacked

#Putin: We consider current Ukraine authorities,they don't have a mandate to manage the whole country,but we don't stop ministerial contacts

#Putin: The whole Europe - from Lisbon to Vladivostok - has to unite to be competitive

#Putin: Roots of Ukraine's nationalism is in its West that's always been a part of other neighboring countries, ppl were 2nd class citizens

#Putin: Ukraine and Russia are practically one nation. It's just that we found ourselves today in different countries.

 

#Putin: Military balance ensures there's will for negotiations

 

#Putin on #Transnistria: Moldova and Ukraine have to stop blockade on its borders. We know there are radical groups at Ukrainian border

 

#Putin makes a move at denying existence of Ukraine:"Novorossiya" [Dnipropetrovsk, Kherson, Odessa regions etc] was never part of #Ukraine

 

Irina Khakamada gives up a role of an opposition politician, tells Putin he's a winner. OMG

 

"Kommersant FM" reporter puts final nail in the coffin of Russia's independent journalism by asking to bring patriotism back in vogue

 

#Putin to a former #Berkut officer: People will understand that you behaved the right way and say thank you

 

#Putin: #Yanukovych told me he had weighed the idea of using force against protesters, but "couldn't force his hand into signing an order"

 

#Putin: [Without little green men] fair #Crimea referendum wouldn't be possible (demokrati på sitt beste )

 

Oh no, #Snowden comes out on live Russian TV by asking a question to #Putin.

Why doesn't #Snowden ask about Durov and VKontakte?

#Putin: Dear Mr #Snowden, you're a former agent. We have laws on intercepting information, so there has to be a court order.

 

(bakgrunns referanse; Russia's 'Zuckerberg' says he fought the government over Ukrainian protester data)

 

 

 

#Putin on First Lady: I have to first help my former wife Lyudmila get married and then think of myself

 

#Putin to #Snowden: We don't have mass surveillance, don't let ourselves do it. And we don't have such technical capacities and money as USA (sa den tidligere KGB agenten )

 

#Putin on liberal opposition in Russia: They are eternally distant from the people

 

Chapayev is #Putin's favorite movie. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0024966/ …

 

 

Flere tilfeldige tweets av Putins uttalelser i dag.................

 

#Kiselyov "Ppl call me paranoid. But like they say just bc you're paranoid doesnt mean you're not being followed. Is NATO coming for us?"

#Putin to Kiselev on NATO: “We’ll strangle them ourselves, what are you afraid of?"

 

 

#Russia central bank takes control of #Privatbank Russian unit after war of words between #Kolomoysky and #Putin

#Putin: Dniepropetrovsk new governor #Kolomoysky is a crook, he fooled our oligarch #Abramovich

[[For those wondering why #Putin hates #Ukraine's #Kolomoysky & keeps talking about how K. outsmarted Abramovich: it was Putins money A. lost!]]

 

#Putin, minutes after saying Europe should stretch from Lisbon to Vladivstok, explaining how/why Russians are different from Westerners

- #Putin: Russians have wider souls/hearts than other peoples around the world.

#A person from the Russian world above all believes that people have a main moral mission.

- #Putin says the Russian people has a great special genetic code. (mener å ha hørt noe liknende før - @Hitler? )

Endret 18. april 2014 av arthon

[arthon]

Store demonstrasjoner med tusenvis av mennesker i øst-Ukraina for et forenet Ukraina...............
En demonstrasjon ble angrepet av separatister men Politiet slo dem tilbake.



#Donetsk.

#Donetsk: a giant flag and people chanting “Glory to the Heroes of #Ukraine” @HromadskeTV

MP #Lyashko attends pro-Ukrainian rally in #Donetsk, where 5-6K ppl gathered despite threats

https://twitter.com/_DuncanC/status/456826343196336128/photo/1

https://twitter.com/PaulSonne/status/456828589854707712/photo/1

https://twitter.com/_DuncanC/status/456827217880698881/photo/1

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/456795174455111681/photo/1

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/456814097577680896/photo/1

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/456816855735615488/photo/1

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/456820116689551360/photo/1

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/456826822160695296/photo/1

Ppl praying for #Ukraine at pro-Ukrainian rally in #Donetsk attended by thousands of activists amidst threats

#Luhansk, eastern #Ukraine today: students want peace and for #Ukraine to be united

 

That's Luhansk today, baby! Proud of you, guys! No pasaran!

Endret 17. april 2014 av arthon

[arthon]

Geneva samtaler er over....................her er tweets om hva de kom frem til...............

 

#Lavrov: statement approved on #Ukraine after 4-way talks in #Geneva today

#Lavrov: statement adopted today in #Geneva talks on #Ukraine outlines initial steps to de-escalate situation

#Lavrov: 4 parties (#Russia, #Ukraine, U.S., #EU) call for illegal armed groups in #Ukraine to be disarmed

#Lavrov: all 4 parties in #Geneva talks today call on #Ukraine buildings to be freed, OSCE will expand monitoring mission in Ukraine

Lavrov: Illegal armed forces need to lay down their arms, Seized buildings have to be turned over to legitimate owners

#Lavrov: #Ukraine needs decentralization, more regional powers, Ukrainians must resolve crisis temselves

#Lavrov: #Russia, US, #EU, #Ukraine agree to meet again on the crisis, all parties urge amnesty for protesters in e. Ukraine.

#Lavrov: 4 parties discussed importance of the economic situation, Its up to Ukrainians to resolve this crisis

#Lavrov: #Ukraine need to bolster status of #Russian language in the country

#Lavrov: #Ukraine neutrality should prevent its membership in @NATO

#Lavrov: anti-#Russian discrimination in #Ukraine is a major stumbling block to dialogue

#Lavrov: statements by #Ukraine parliament on #Russian-language speakers are "outrageous"

#Lavrov: #Russia has "no desire at all" to send troops to #Ukraine

#Lavrov: #Putin never said there are no #Russian troops in Crimea b/c there were Russian troops on the military base there legally

#Lavrov: the self-defense units handled the situation on their own to prevent a repeat of the #Kiev "maidan" situation in #Crimea

#Lavrov: #Russian military deployment to #Ukraine is against our interests. His presser in #Geneva's over, waiting for @JohnKerry, Ashton

 

Updated: #Putin Calls #Obama ‘Brave Man,’ Touts Shared Goals With U.S. http://bloom.bg/1hPq1NA via @BloombergNews

 

----------------

 

#SecKerry: More sanctions against #Russia to be announced if there is no action from them this weekend.

#SecKerry: 4-party meeting in #Geneva on #Ukraine today amounts to "good day's work"

#SecKerry: all 4 parties in today's #Geneva talks will secure #Ukraine's financial, economic stability.

#SecKerry: #Ukraine FM reaffirmed commitment to reform its constitution and its govt will hold broad natl dialogue on the crisis

#SecKerry: there was no discussion today of removing existing sanctions against #Russia, as everyone agree that'd be "premature"

#SecKerry: #Geneva talks on #Ukraine are "just the beginning"

#SecKerry: responsibility lies with those who finance, support, clothe and guide those armed groups in #Ukraine

#SecKerry: our goal is not to come to #Geneva to be threatening, talking about downsides. Trying to express reality about what is to happen.

#SecKerry: We differed on #Crimea, called it illegal. Made it "crystal clear" there is "significant diff" on #Crimea.

#SecKerry: But didn't come to #Geneva today to #Crimea but to prevent spiral for the worse in e. #Ukraine

 

#KERRY: "These are INITIAL concrete steps - not the full measure of de-escalation."

#KERRY: "Russia made it clear they won't be removing troops from Eastern border once Ukraine is stabilized."

#KERRY: "No commitments as far as gas and energy policy goes.

Kerry in Geneva: People in Eastern Ukraine "need our support now and they need it more than ever".

Kerry: "No one should expect the leaders of a sovereign state to always stand by passively" (split infinitive as delivered).

Kerry: "We strongly condemned and rejected...extremism, racism and anti-Semitism" in Ukraine.

Kerry: "Grotesque and beyond unacceptable" that Jews in parts of Ukraine were ordered to identify themselves.

Kerry: Threats to Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine is "not just grotesque and unacceptable, but it will not stand". (???????)

Kerry: "We wanted to find concrete steps, not just words, that could..defuse the situation". OSCE to play greater role "immediately"

Kerry: "We are the 1st to understand..that words on paper will only mean what the actions that are taken as a result of those words produce".

 

 

#EU's #Ashton: a very "exciting" moment to start process for ppl to feel like they're engaging in serious discussion about their future

 

#BreakingNews US Amb to Ukraine @GeoffPyatt confirms authentic, 'chilling' anti-Semitic leaflets from pro-Russian groups in eastern Ukraine

Endret 17. april 2014 av arthon

[perpyro]

Da kan vi vel anse krisen som over, Russland får de væpnede gruppene til å legge fra seg våpnene, gi fra seg alle offentlige bygg de har tatt og freden senker seg atter en gang over Ukraina, eller det some r igjen av det etter at russland tok Krim.

 

Eller.................

Endret 17. april 2014 av perpyro

[Mr.M]

I den grad Russland har herredømme på ulike separatistgrupper i så fall. Det er ikke sikkert.

[arthon]

Garry KasparovVerified account‏@Kasparov63

 

Putin isn't looking for territory; he's looking for enemies. Constant conflict is the manna of the dictator. Enemies needed, inside & out.

Endret 17. april 2014 av arthon

[arthon]

Avtalen i Geneve i dag............. (linkback til sitater her på forumet https://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=1570258&p=21574994

Endret 17. april 2014 av arthon

[perpyro]

I den grad Russland har herredømme på ulike separatistgrupper i så fall. Det er ikke sikkert.

Det verste av alt er at jeg misstenker meget sterkt at separatistene forsvinner som dugg for sola, i hvertfall for en stund.

[soldatfrank]

Det kom vel en indirekte innrømelse fra Russland, om at det var de som stod bak bråket og opptøyene i øst-Ukraina også.

 

Som VG skrev:

 

"I avtalen som er inngått i kveld ligger det en innrømmelse fra Kreml om at de har makt over de pro-russiske separatistene i Donbass-området. For opprørerne var ikke representert på møtet i Genève, noe som betyr at utenriksminister Sergej Lavrov også talte deres sak."

 

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/ukraina/kommentar-er-putin-fornoeyd-naa/a/10147353/

 

Så ja, de kommer nok til å forsvinne rimelig raskt nå..... Og samtidig dukke rimelig raskt opp igjen, om Ukraina tar en vei Putin ikke liker, i fremtiden..

 

Det brilliante Putin har gjort her, er at han har ulovlig annektert Krim (Noe som resulterte i sanksjoner mot Russland, med trusler om utvidete sanksjoner om han ikke gir tilbake Krim), for så å dreie fokuset over på øst-Ukraina, med indirekte trussler om innvasjon. Når Russland nå backer unna øst-Ukraina, så puster vesten ut, og vil nok gradvis redusere sanksjonene mot Russland.

Endret 17. april 2014 av soldatfrank

[Mr.M]

 

I den grad Russland har herredømme på ulike separatistgrupper i så fall. Det er ikke sikkert.

Det verste av alt er at jeg misstenker meget sterkt at separatistene forsvinner som dugg for sola, i hvertfall for en stund.

 

 

Kan tenke meg at neppe alle våpen blir levert inn heller. *kjekt å ha"

 

Spørs hva som kommer ut av valget 25 mai. og hvem som kommer til makten, hvordan tingen utvikler seg kanskje.

Endret 17. april 2014 av Mr.M