Den russiske aggresjonen mot Ukraina

[Mr.M]

 

Men det betyr ikke at hans analyse er feil.

 

 

Jo, han har en agenda for å svartmale. Han er garantert vonbroten over temmelig puslete EU-sanksjoner (i hans øyne) og da forsøker han skifte fokus ved å konstruere opp et kunstig skremmebilde om at Putin har planer om å ta hele Ukraina.

 

Russland kan tross alt slippe unna med annekteringen av Krim, med litt kritikk og ei ripe i lakken. Mens et angrep på Ukraina som helhet ville bety massiv tap av forståelse og helt andre typer sanksjoner. Så det virker som et usannsynlig scenario (med mindre det ikke iscenesettes provokasjoner etterhvert for å lokke Putin ut på glattisen)

[arthon]

“The Wolf who cried Fascist!”

– Pathology of Russian Propaganda against Ukraine, pt. 1

UTDRAG................

“Anti-fascists” = fascists

But even more, it is becoming clear how “the fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists” ( a quote attributed to Winston Churchill).

A quick look at the ‘antifascist’ crusaders in Moscow will suffice: police state in Russia, murdered opposition journalists, information monopoly on its own citizens, brutall suppression of its own minorities, military invasions of neighboring countries in “its sphere of influence” etc….

photo of Mr. Ronkainen from his FaceBook.

On March 1, 2014 Russian citizen Mika Ronkainen climbed to the top of the State Administration building in Kharkiv and photographed himself hoisting a Russian flag.

In a later interview he described himself as a ‘Russian activist and citizen-journalist’ who travelled to Kharkiv to liberate that city from ‘fascist’ and ‘Western supported’ Kyiv government.

Investigative journalists established that he takes part in the Putin-supported xenophobic movement “Locals”.

And then there’s ‘anti-Fascist’ Pavel Gubarev, self-proclaimed (and short tenured) governor of Donetsk (in Ukrain). Mr. Gubarev also belongs to the Russian National Unity party.

Poster from the Russian Unity Party

And who will rescue the world from all these horrors? Moscow?

Russian historical studies, Imperial as well as Soviet, exalted every Russian action in “collecting all the lands of Rus” and extension of Russian territory. The most brutal barbarian acts of the Moscow elite to enslave neighboring nations and conquer foreign lands were always rated a “historically positive factor.” Nations, attached to “Russian land” during their period of enslavement underwent horrendous genocides, utter decimation of their national elites, forced Russianization, and brutal relocations from their native soil.

The Soviet era continued this with a vengeance. And yet, today’s pro Russian ‘anti fascists’ defend the monuments which glorify the supreme architect of the Soviet Union – Lenin…

While still in bed with Hitler, Stalin annexed the Baltics, tore apart Poland and started a war with Finland.

Why is this not ‘fascist’ if the Nazis were doing the same thing?

And then, did Stalin’s subsequent horrendous acts suddenly stop being ‘fascist’ once Hitler became his enemy?

Goebbels wrote:

“The most brilliant propagandist technique… must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”

Sifting through the avalanche of accusations about Ukraine from pro-Russian sources we can discern several themes: “hate groups… nationalists… neoNazi… fascist… anti-Russian… extremists” and to a lesser extent “anti-Semite and anti-gay”.

Endret 22. mars 2014 av arthon

[arthon]

“The Wolf who cried Fascist!”

– Pathology of Russian Propaganda against Ukraine, pt. 2

How Russia ‘fought against fascism’ – from 1920 until 1941

For more than twenty years, Moscow’s closest ties in Europe were with Germany – starting in 1920 when Berlin supplied intelligence about the Polish Army to the Soviets. (And twenty years later, Stalin returned the favor when he had his radio stations in Minsk broadcast signals to the Luftwaffe to guide them to their Polish targets.) Everyone now knows about the secret 1939 Nazi-USSR Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty, but even as late as October, 1940, Stalin was still negotiating terms to join the Tripartite Pact with Italy, Japan, and Germany.

Karl Radek, fervent Stalinist and one of the authors of the new Soviet Constitution, wrote.....

“… only fools could imagine we should ever break with Germany… No one can give us what Germany can.”

Illegal Nazi-Soviet joint military operations were secretly conducted on Soviet territory during inter-war years.

Hoping to improve his relations with Hitler, Stalin returned to Germany Jews who had come to the Soviet Union expecting the promised ‘worker’s paradise’ .

For their part, Nazi officers visited Soviet concentration camps to study how the Russians handled a common concern.

The same media who repeat talking points about “fascism” in today’s Ukraine, never mention the millions of Ukrainians who gave their lives fighting both ‘fascist’ Nazis and their former allies – the Soviets.

(Actually, the Soviets even got the label wrong when they started using it against Hitler. Perhaps if they had correctly defined the Germans as National Socialists (Nazis), the realization that their enemy were also Socialists would have struck a nerve?)

Endret 22. mars 2014 av arthon

[Mr.M]

Ironisk nok landet nettopp Kinas statminister Xi Jinping i Nederland - på sin første lenge planlagte lange rundreise i Europa - samtidig kommer Obama til Europa til uken - så de møtes der.

 

Den Kinesiske presidenten vil besøke Nederland, Belgia og Tyskland og EU hovedkvarteret i Brussel.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26695489

 

Blir sikkert et fint "photo-op" med presidenten for USA og Kina sammen med Europeiske statsleder - mens Putin sitter alene i Moskva og ikke får være sammen med "de store gutta" - et sterkt signal om hvor isolert Putin er.

 

Et besøk i Moskva for den Kinesiske presidenten er visstnok ikke planlagt.

 

Tror du tar i litt for mye med å innkassere en slags goodwill-seier fra kinesisk hold.

 

Når FN hadde oppe avstemning om å fordømme Russland nylig, så avstod kinesiske ambassadøren fra å avgi stemme.

[arthon]

 

Ironisk nok landet nettopp Kinas statminister Xi Jinping i Nederland - på sin første lenge planlagte lange rundreise i Europa - samtidig kommer Obama til Europa til uken - så de møtes der.

 

Den Kinesiske presidenten vil besøke Nederland, Belgia og Tyskland og EU hovedkvarteret i Brussel.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26695489

 

Blir sikkert et fint "photo-op" med presidenten for USA og Kina sammen med Europeiske statsleder - mens Putin sitter alene i Moskva og ikke får være sammen med "de store gutta" - et sterkt signal om hvor isolert Putin er.

 

Et besøk i Moskva for den Kinesiske presidenten er visstnok ikke planlagt.

 

Tror du tar i litt for mye med å innkassere en slags goodwill-seier fra kinesisk hold.

 

Når FN hadde oppe avstemning om å fordømme Russland nylig, så avstod kinesiske ambassadøren fra å avgi stemme.

 

En photo-op hvor den kinesiske leder står sammen med den amerikanske president og europeiske ledere er et ganske mye sterkere signal, spesielt overfor verdens befolkning enn en melding om en stemme i FN i disse tider.

"a picture speaks more than thousand words"

 

Så får vi se om han er villig til å stille opp på en slik photo-op.

 

PS; Hvor er Michelle Obama?

Hun er på sjarmør reise i Kina med sine to døtre.

 

Når det kommer til stemmegivningen i FN; Vanligvis så stemmer Kina med Russland (Veto) i slike situasjoner, hvis de støtter Russland.

Når de stemmer blankt - og samtidig ikke diplomatisk anerkjenner Krim som Russisk - så er det et ganske sterkt signal fra Kina.

 

For mer analyse av verdenspolitikken som handler i store deler om Kinas rolle i dette - fra the Economist;

 

Diplomacy and security after Crimea

The new world order

The post-Soviet world order was far from perfect, but Vladimir Putin’s idea for replacing it is much worse

Mar 22nd 2014

 

Endret 22. mars 2014 av arthon

[L4r5]

Det å avstå fra å stemme er jo også et signal. Ikke like sterkt som å stemme i mot, men Kina og Russland har jo tidligere ofte vært "gode busser" når det gjelder avstemninger i FN.

 

Edit: Se der, ja. Der var det et innlegg mellom det jeg prøvde å svare på og mitt svar. Slått med 6 minutter.

Endret 22. mars 2014 av L4r5

[arthon]

Illegitimate Prime Minister of Crimea Sergey AKSENOV has for 11 yrs been citizen of Russia,....
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/447451205988413440/photo/1

Ukrainian law currently does not recognise dual citizenship.

However there are citizens of Ukraine who hold dual citizenship. Various estimates put the number of Ukrainians with more than one passport from 300,000 to a few million. Within Ukrainian boundaries Ukrainian citizens who also hold multiple citizenships are considered to be solely Ukrainian citizens.“

If a citizen of Ukraine acquires citizenship (nationality) of another state or states, in legal relations with Ukraine, the person is recognized as a citizen of Ukraine only. If a foreigner acquires the citizenship of Ukraine, then in legal relations with Ukraine, the person is recognized as a citizen of Ukraine only...

Ville overraske meg om en med dobbelt statsborgerskap kan være president i et lokalt parlamentet i Ukraina - spesielt hvis han ikke har opplyst om dette.

 

 

Reuters; Ukrainian police have seized 42 kilograms of gold and $4.8 million in cash during a search of the apartments of Ukraine's former Energy Minister Eduard Stavytsky,

Endret 22. mars 2014 av arthon

[Mr.M]

uansett, toget er vel gått.

 

Vanskelig å se for seg at Krim-halvøya blir tilbakeført.

[arthon]

“Crimea is Only the First Step”: Former Putin Adviser

 

UTDRAG............

 

The Austrian daily Wiener Zeitung has published an illuminating interview about Ukraine and the Kremlin with Andrei Illarionov, a prominent Russian economist who served as Vladimir Putin’s top economic adviser from 2000 to 2005, as well as the Kremlin’s representative to the G-8. Illarionov’s comments are important, given his direct knowledge of Putin’s Kremlin, and deserve a wide audience. The interview, which includes troubling truths about Russia now, follows in toto.

“Crimea is Only the First Step”

Q: What are Putin’s intentions with regard to Crimea?

A; The Russian Black Sea Fleet has its bases in Sevastopol in Crimea and Vladimir Putin wants to secure them. The Russian president fears that the new Ukrainian government may terminate the basing lease and let NATO use the ports. In addition, he wants to bring the Russian and Russian-speaking population home into his empire.

Q: A majority of the residents of Crimea voted in favor of splitting off from Ukraine.

A: The referendum offered Putin a legal basis to send his troops into Ukraine. Crimea is only the first step. Russia will not spare the South and East of Ukraine. The violent clashes in Kharkiv and Donetsk and the occupation of the local administrations there were arranged by the Kremlin. Putin wants to destabilize Eastern Ukraine and possibly plunge it into a civil war. Then, he could also invade the Eastern regions.

Q: Eastern Ukraine does not want to have anything to do with the interim government in Kyiv, claiming that there are fascists in power there. Is it not understandable that the Eastern Ukrainians want to have a protector?

A: Do you in the West believe the fable about fascists? Putin is only looking for a pretext for a larger military intervention. By the way, I have doubts that the majority of Russians believe the fascist theory.

Q: Opinion polls say that more than sixty percent of Russians would approve of a war over Crimea.

A: Opinion polls in authoritarian states are untrustworthy and do not reflect people’s real views. Public opinion in Russia is the result of propaganda and brainwashing. The best example of this is Russian television with its extremely unbalanced coverage of Ukraine.

Q: The West has punished persons close to the Crimean government loyal to Moscow by imposing travel bans. Other sanctions are being considered. Will Putin be impressed by that?

A: No, such sanctions are not effective. They should have been agreed upon months ago. Putin will not be frightened off by travel bans.

Q: Should the West supply arms to Ukraine, as some Republicans in the United States are demanding?

A: Arms supplies are not enough. Putin must be confronted militarily. I do not mean acts of war. But the West should show a military presence in the Black Sea, for example. This is the only way to stop Putin.

Q: Does the West have to fear Putin?

A: Angela Merkel says that Putin has lost touch with reality. This is what it looks like from the viewpoint of a typical European politician, but it’s wrong. Putin does not behave like a normal statesman. The West should see the world with Putin’s eyes and understand his logic.

Q: What is Putin’s logic?

A: He is driven by personal and political power and has unleashed hysteria in Russia about becoming a new empire. This puts global security at risk. He will carry on until he is stopped.

A: If you were still on Putin’s team, what would your advice regarding Ukraine be now?

Q; Every prudent advisor would advise him to keep his fingers out of Ukraine. Unfortunately, Putin does not listen to advice. He is not willing to listen to anybody.

Endret 22. mars 2014 av arthon

[arthon]

I løpet av helgen har det vært flere små og store demonstrasjoner i Ukraina.

I byen Donetsk krevde pro-Russiske demonstranter en lokal folkeavstemning om Donetsk regionen skulle bli en del av Russland.

 

Nå har de fått en motreaksjon fra en annen fraksjon i Donetsk som har et liknende krav - deres krav er en folkeavstemning med målet om at Donetsk skal slutte seg til Storbritannia.

 

Bakgrunnen for dette er at Donetsk by ble grunnlagt i 1869 av den Walisiske forretningsmannen John Huges som etablerte kull og stålindustri der.

 

Byens originale navn Yuzovka kommer fra en russifisering av hans etternavn.

 

Oppropet som i løpet av få timer hadde over 7000 tilslutninger hvor 61% var for at Donetsk skulle bli annektert av Storbritannia har kamprop som...........

 

"Donetsk is a British city! God Save the Queen,"

The online appeal asked the people of Donetsk — "fellow Britons" — to seize the "decisive moment" and have their say on "where your children will live and what language they will speak."

The local Donbass.ua news website reported that more than 7,000 people had supported the proposal by Sunday, with an online poll showing about 61 percent of respondents favored accession to Britain, and another 16 percent favored "broad regional autonomy" with English as an official language.

"For more than a century Russians have deceived us by saying that this is an indigenous Russian city, and Ukrainians — that it is Ukrainian," the online appeal said.

"We are demanding a referendum on returning Yuzovka to its original bosom — Great Britain!" it said.

Smak på den du Putin - kanskje ikke ekskursjonen i Krim var så smart allikevel....

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/mock-proposal-calls-for-british-city-donetsk-to-secede-from-ukraine-join-uk/496705.html

http://echo.msk.ru/blog/statya/1285300-echo/

En liknende web side har dukket opp i Alaska som krever at Alaska skiller seg fra USA og blir en del av Russland - web siden har til nå fått 12000 signaturer........

Entitled "Alaska back to Russia," the petition cites the travels of 18th-century Russian explorers to Alaska, which was a Russian colony until the U.S. bought it in 1867 for a mere $7.2 million, or $120 million adjusted for inflation. The petition must attract 100,000 signatures by April 20 to be reviewed by President Barack Obama's

administration.

I tillegg har en web side har dukket opp i Gaza som også krever å bli en del av Russland.....

In the Middle East, the Russian-language version of a Palestinian website run by Hamas said that Russian speakers in the Gaza Strip planned to hold a referendum on their territory join Russia, though no confirmation by Hamas leaders of any such plans were reported.

Joining Russia would provide Gaza with "modern weapons — even nuclear ones cannot be ruled out," the woman was quoted as saying.

Palestine-info said the number of Russian citizens living in Gaza is about 50,000, most of them Russian women who married Palestinian men, though Voice of Russia cited Russian media reports as saying that the actual number was less than 400 people.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/residents-in-alaska-gaza-strip-want-to-join-russia/496710.html

Endret 24. mars 2014 av arthon

[Dudeliduu]

 

I løpet av helgen har det vært flere små og store demonstrasjoner i Ukraina.

I byen Donetsk krevde pro-Russiske demonstranter en lokal folkeavstemning om Donetsk regionen skulle bli en del av Russland.

 

Nå har de fått en motreaksjon fra en annen fraksjon i Donetsk som har et liknende krav - deres krav er en folkeavstemning med målet om at Donetsk skal slutte seg til Storbritannia.

 

Bakgrunnen for dette er at Donetsk by ble grunnlagt i 1869 av den Walisiske forretningsmannen John Huges som etablerte kull og stålindustri der.

 

Byens originale navn Yuzovka kommer fra en russifisering av hans etternavn.

 

Oppropet som i løpet av få timer hadde over 7000 tilslutninger hvor 61% var for at Donetsk skulle bli annektert av Storbritannia har kamprop som...........

 

"Donetsk is a British city! God Save the Queen,"

The online appeal asked the people of Donetsk — "fellow Britons" — to seize the "decisive moment" and have their say on "where your children will live and what language they will speak."

The local Donbass.ua news website reported that more than 7,000 people had supported the proposal by Sunday, with an online poll showing about 61 percent of respondents favored accession to Britain, and another 16 percent favored "broad regional autonomy" with English as an official language.

"For more than a century Russians have deceived us by saying that this is an indigenous Russian city, and Ukrainians — that it is Ukrainian," the online appeal said.

"We are demanding a referendum on returning Yuzovka to its original bosom — Great Britain!" it said.

Smak på den du Putin - kanskje ikke ekskursjonen i Krim var så smart allikevel....

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/mock-proposal-calls-for-british-city-donetsk-to-secede-from-ukraine-join-uk/496705.html

http://echo.msk.ru/blog/statya/1285300-echo/

1151512.jpg

En liknende web side har dukket opp i Alaska som krever at Alaska skiller seg fra USA og blir en del av Russland - web siden har til nå fått 12000 signaturer........

Entitled "Alaska back to Russia," the petition cites the travels of 18th-century Russian explorers to Alaska, which was a Russian colony until the U.S. bought it in 1867 for a mere $7.2 million, or $120 million adjusted for inflation. The petition must attract 100,000 signatures by April 20 to be reviewed by President Barack Obama's

administration.

I tillegg har en web side har dukket opp i Gaza som også krever å bli en del av Russland.....

In the Middle East, the Russian-language version of a Palestinian website run by Hamas said that Russian speakers in the Gaza Strip planned to hold a referendum on their territory join Russia, though no confirmation by Hamas leaders of any such plans were reported.

Joining Russia would provide Gaza with "modern weapons — even nuclear ones cannot be ruled out," the woman was quoted as saying.

Palestine-info said the number of Russian citizens living in Gaza is about 50,000, most of them Russian women who married Palestinian men, though Voice of Russia cited Russian media reports as saying that the actual number was less than 400 people.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/residents-in-alaska-gaza-strip-want-to-join-russia/496710.html

 

Godt de fremdeles har motet oppe og mørk humor på plass i en slik usikker tid. Respekt for det

[arthon]

"Valget" på Krim.

 

Resultatet fra valget på Krim er det ingen som trodde på.

 

Selv valget på ny parlaments leder noen uker før var mest sannsynlig forfalsket - dette fikk lite objektivt presse dekning i vesten - Aftenposten var de eneste som faktisk undersøkte hvor mange parlaments medlemmer faktisk var tilstede, og kom til at det var rundt 36 stykker - parlamentet består av 60 medlemmer og trengte etter loven en majoritet på 51 for å velge ny leder.

 

Nå er det flere kilder som leter tilbake i Galluper på Krim som har blitt gjort regelmessig de siste årene.

 

De to siste Gallupene ble gjort i midten av Februar - den ene fant at 35.9% var positiv til at Krim ble en del av Russland, den andre fant at 41% var det.

 

Disse prosentene vil naturlig ha steget etter demonstrasjonen i Kiev - spørsmålet er om hvor høye de ville vært om et valgt på Krim hadde foregått en stund etter det generelle valget i Ukraina i Mai.

 

Staunton, March 24 – The majority of residents of Crimea almost certainly did not vote to join the Russian Federation, according to a detailed analysis of that vote by Andrey Illarionov, and Putin’s claimed victory was, as many have suspected, the result of the kind of massive falsification Putin has perpetrated in Russian elections in the past.

Such figures correspond with the results of polls taken in Crimea in early to mid-February, Illarionov point out. One by the Democratic Initiative found that 35.9 percent of Crimeans favored joining Russia, and a second by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology found a figure of 41.0 percent.

And these in turn replicate the findings of still earlier samplings by the Research and Branding Group and the Gallup Institute and International Republican Institute, he says.

“At a minimum,” Illarionov says, “two-thirds of the residents of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea did not vote for joining [it] to present-day Putin’ Russia.” Consequently, the chief ideological prop of the Kremlin on this issue falls apart and means that Putin is relying on naked force alone, something that those concerned about Ukraine and the future should focus on.

Nine months ago, Tatyana Ivzhenko of Moscow’s Nezavsimaya Gazeta reported that “Russia is losing influence on Crimean residents,” a conclusion she said arose from the findings of new polls there. To the extent that is true, Putin may have felt he had to move when he did lest support for him and for Russia were to fall further.

http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-falsified-crimean-referendum-results-illarionov-says/

<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sånn ser det ut når pro-Russere demonstrer i Odessa..................

Lengter de virkelig tilbake til Sovjets arbeiderparadis...................eller er de bare hjernevaskete zombies.....

Endret 24. mars 2014 av arthon

[Den åttende profet]

Mye som tyder på at tiden er moden for Jemtland og Herjedalen. (Nei, ikke med ä).

[arthon]

Odessa 22.03.2014 - Flash mob Ukraina style.

 

(se hele fra starten)

 

http://youtu.be/dQ6SAwPD-ss

[arthon]

Det har vært skrevet mye i pressen om høyre kreftenes innflytelse på opprøret i Ukraina og Putin har brukt dette mot dem i sin propaganda.

 

De pro-Russiske organisasjonen som organiserer demonstrasjoner med krav om at Ukraina skal bli en del av Russland hører vi derimot lite om i vestlig presse.

 

Her er en av lederne for de pro-Russiske demonstrasjonene i Donetsk og Odessa.

 

Anton Petersburgian Raevskii medlem av neo-Nazi organisasjonen "Black Hundred".

 

 

Hva skulle Putin gjort hvis han ikke hadde slike venner på sin side................

http://obozrevatel.com/crime/98017-odesskih-separatistov-opekaet-neonatsist-iz-rossii.htm

Endret 25. mars 2014 av arthon

[Mr.M]

Nato på ville veier?

 

"Danmark sender seks F-16 jagerfly til Baltikum for å patruljere luftrommet over Estland, Latvia og Litauen".

 

http://www.nrk.no/verden/danske-jagerfly-til-baltikum-1.11632249

[arthon]

Nato på ville veier?

Føre var?

 

Hvis du har fulgt med litt så ville du se at Russland i flere uker har sendt store mengder militært materiell sørover.

Noe mot Ukrainas østre grense hvor de nå er stasjoner 10-15km fra grensen.

Også mye materiell går med tog til en Russisk by nord for Kiev hvor jernbanen splitter og går videre til Belarus eller Ukraina.

 

Det er også for noen dager siden meldt om mye materiell reisende på tog fra St.Petersburg sørover i retning av Baltikum.

 

WASHINGTON, March 26 (Reuters) - U.S. and European security agencies estimate Russia has deployed military and militia units totaling more than 30,000 people along its border with eastern Ukraine

 

 

 

26.03.14 Tanks Kantemirovsky division at the Ukrainian border

 

City Novozybkov, Bryansk region (nord for Kiev)

http://youtu.be/p-zUMBqqgTc

 

Novozibkov

http://youtu.be/wJr_JC1wHAo

 

Tanks in Voronezh 24.03.2014 (n. Somovo, Voronezh region.)

http://youtu.be/6YhUdomSpQc

Endret 27. mars 2014 av arthon

[Rampage]

Nato på ville veier?

 

"Danmark sender seks F-16 jagerfly til Baltikum for å patruljere luftrommet over Estland, Latvia og Litauen".

 

http://www.nrk.no/verden/danske-jagerfly-til-baltikum-1.11632249

Den mest naturlige responsen på militær opptrapping og mobilisering er et militært tilsvar med troppemobilisering, forflytting og treningsoppdrag som de mest vanlige virkemidlene. For NATO å flekse muskler og støtte sine svakere, mer utsatte allierte som er bekymret er det eneste riktige å gjøre.

[Dudeliduu]

 

Nato på ville veier?

 

"Danmark sender seks F-16 jagerfly til Baltikum for å patruljere luftrommet over Estland, Latvia og Litauen".

 

http://www.nrk.no/verden/danske-jagerfly-til-baltikum-1.11632249

Den mest naturlige responsen på militær opptrapping og mobilisering er et militært tilsvar med troppemobilisering, forflytting og treningsoppdrag som de mest vanlige virkemidlene. For NATO å flekse muskler og støtte sine svakere, mer utsatte allierte som er bekymret er det eneste riktige å gjøre.

 

Enig. Selv synes jeg det burde mobiliseres mer til denne konflikten demper seg, men ting kan også tolkes som aggresjon, og det er ikke greit..

[L4r5]

Noen ganger er det eneste som nytter å møte aggresjon med aggresjon.