Affirmative action - Kva er det med venstreorienterte?

[Skatteflyktning]

 

It acknowledges that racism impedes non-white integration which whites do not suffer and are therefore more able to obtain higher positions in society, not because they are inherently superior, only that they are privileged

 

If a race is run and all with brown eyes must carry extra weight on their feet, blue eyed people are not necessarily superior, they are privileged. Giving brown eyed people a head start(affirmative action) evens up the competition but does not imply inferiority

 

Discrimination against blacks were perpetrated by the States for many years after slavery ended.

 

Instituting discimination against whites, even if you call it affirmative action, to compensate for past sins seems illogical if one is against discrimination.

 

It seems akin to instituting "doublespeak term" (slavery) for whites because one is against the slavery perpetrated against the blacks.

 

Or removing the right to vote for men, because women were prevented from voting in earlier times and we're not happy with the number of female politicians.

 

Or discriminating against men on company boards by introducing female quotas due to the supposed "glass ceiling". (If I am not mistaken this is now a legal requirement in Norway).

Endret 31. desember 2013 av Skatteflyktning

[jjkoggan]

 Discrimination against blacks were perpetrated by the States for many years after slavery ended.

 

Instituting discimination against whites, even if you call it affirmative action, to compensate for past sins seems illogical if one is against discrimination.

 

It seems akin to instituting "doublespeak term" (slavery) for whites because one is against the slavery perpetrated against the blacks.

 

Or removing the right to vote for men, because women were prevented from voting in earlier times and we're not happy with the number of female politicians.

 

Or discriminating against men on company boards by introducing female quotas due to the supposed "glass ceiling". (If I am not mistaken this is now a legal requirement in Norway).

In a perfect world anti-discrimination laws would eliminate discrimination and also white privilege but it does not.

 

Many, like yourself appear to think that affirmative action is a mainly a mechanism to pay for the past but this viewpoint denies the existence of white privilege today, a barrier of racism that all black people suffer today, not yesterday.

 

With regards to economics, Norwegians already discriminate against the wealthy with higher tax rates to allow poorer people a chance to move forward. One must think critically why economic affirmative action is accepted but not racial affirmative action

[Skatteflyktning]

 

In a perfect world anti-discrimination laws would eliminate discrimination and also white privilege but it does not.

I do not believe individual discrimination is a problem, indeed I believe it is absolutely necessary. The problem is legal (all encompassing discrimination).

 

Many, like yourself appear to think that affirmative action is a mainly a mechanism to pay for the past but this viewpoint denies the existence of white privilege today, a barrier of racism that all black people suffer today, not yesterday.

Indeed, I see no "white" privilege today, nor any male privilege, nor any other privilege, except black privilege and female privilege of course.

 

A privilege is a special entitlement to immunity granted by the state or another authority to a restricted group, either by birth or on a conditional basis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege_(legal_ethics)

 

With regards to economics, Norwegians already discriminate against the wealthy with higher tax rates to allow poorer people a chance to move forward. One must think critically why economic affirmative action is accepted but not racial affirmative action

I do not accept "economic affirmative action", but you do raise a valid argument against those that do. Endret 31. desember 2013 av Skatteflyktning

[jjkoggan]

 I do not believe individual discrimination is a problem, indeed I believe it is absolutely necessary. The problem is legal (all encompassing discrimination).

 

 

 

Racism is all encompassing in its many forms. If all were judged only as individuals racism would not exist.

 

 

 

 

Indeed, I see no "white" privilege today, nor any male privilege, nor any other privilege, except black privilege and female privilege of course.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege_(legal_ethics)

 

You ignore systematic prejudice and discrimination perpetrated by large groups of individuals. I guess you prefer lynchings and hangings of the past when individuals could carry out their individual discriminatory behavior without fear of prosecution, something you say is absolutely necessary.

 

 

[Skatteflyktning]

 

 

Racism is all encompassing in its many forms. If all were judged only as individuals racism would not exist.

Racism would no longer exist, but discrimination would continue.

 

 

 

You ignore systematic prejudice and discrimination perpetrated by large groups of individuals.

The States ARE large groups of individuals hence my main concern, what I do not think relevant is individual discrimination.

 

 

I guess you prefer lynchings and hangings of the past when individuals could carry out their individual discriminatory behavior without fear of prosecution, something you say is absolutely necessary.

 

I guess that is a straw man.

[jjkoggan]

  Racism would no longer exist, but discrimination would continue.

 

 

 

 

 

Nope, racism is a personal belief system, individuals are racist and can act out with racist behavior. Discrimination in certain forms is perfectly OK and necessary, but not racial discrimination. Sad that you support racist behavior.

[тurbonєℓℓo]

Føler denne passer her også:

Endret 2. januar 2014 av turbonello

[Skatteflyktning]

Nope, racism is a personal belief system, individuals are racist and can act out with racist behavior. Discrimination in certain forms is perfectly OK and necessary, but not racial discrimination. Sad that you support racist behavior.

There is a rather big difference in accepting that other people are stupid and hence not supporting outlawing stupidity, and supporting stupid people.

[jjkoggan]

There is a rather big difference in accepting that other people are stupid and hence not supporting outlawing stupidity, and supporting stupid people.

Is this true for all negative behaviour, we accept that some people are murderers too?

[norskgoy]

Is this true for all negative behaviour, we accept that some people are murderers too?

 

Nå er som regel mottaker ikke enig i morderens handlinger. Om du som rasist hater en viss type mennesker har det ingen effekt på de du hater.

Endret 3. januar 2014 av norskgoy

[Skatteflyktning]

 

Is this true for all negative behaviour, we accept that some people are murderers too?

Nope, only for negative private behaviour with your own property that does not injure others, such as such as when a racist lady that refuses to have sex with blacks because she (irrationally) believes whites are superior lovers (or the other way around). Hence in the access to her body she is discriminating against a certain race.

 

Should we force her to stop her racism (ie force her to have sex with men she does not want to have sex with)?

Endret 3. januar 2014 av Skatteflyktning

[jjkoggan]

 Nope, only for negative private behaviour with your own property that does not injure others, such as such as when a racist lady that refuses to have sex with blacks because she (irrationally) believes whites are superior lovers (or the other way around). Hence in the access to her body she is discriminating against a certain race.

 

Should we force her to stop her racism (ie force her to have sex with men she does not want to have sex with)?

And the material damage and harassment that the racist employer perpetrates, that is ok?

[jjkoggan]

 

Nå er som regel mottaker ikke enig i morderens handlinger. Om du som rasist hater en viss type mennesker har det ingen effekt på de du hater.

Arbeidsgiveren som er rasist kan gjøre mye ondt

[Skatteflyktning]

 

And the material damage and harassment that the racist employer perpetrates, that is ok?

You do not cause any damage by refusing to buy the services that someone wants to sell you. (Unless the politicians has made it illegal for anyone to buy said services).

[jjkoggan]

 

You do not cause any damage by refusing to buy the services that someone wants to sell you. (Unless the politicians has made it illegal for anyone to buy said services).

You cause damage by refusing to promote or hire employees based on race in addition to ridicule and harassment at the workplace

 

And yes, refusing to sell life saving medicine or health care can cause damage

Endret 3. januar 2014 av jjkoggan

[Skatteflyktning]

 

You cause damage by refusing to promote or hire employees based on race in addition to ridicule and harassment at the workplace

Yes, just as I cause damage to Coca Cola by drinking Pepsi

 

And yes, refusing to sell life saving medicine or health care can cause damage

Loosing sight of that it is the disease that is causing the damage, and not you refusal to sell (at whatever price the patient deems fair).

[jjkoggan]

  Yes, just as I cause damage to Coca Cola by drinking Pepsi

 

Loosing sight of that it is the disease that is causing the damage, and not you refusal to sell (at whatever price the patient deems fair).

Hell of a world you've constructed there Skatteflyktning. Children dying in the streets because they contracted a disease through no fault of their own and nobody will sell them medicine and others starving or barely surviving because nobody will hire them or sell them food. All, because of the color of their skin, and all because they chose "Pepsi instead of Coca Cola".

[Skatteflyktning]

Children dying in the streets because they contracted a disease through no fault of their own and nobody will sell them medicine

It may come as shocking news to you but thousands o folks are dying every day, all around the world, basically because nobody will sell them health services or medicine to keep them alive a little longer at a loss.

 

and others starving or barely surviving because nobody will hire them or sell them food. All, because of the color of their skin, and all because they chose "Pepsi instead of Coca Cola".

Now do you claim that blacks discriminate against blacks, since nobody presumably will also exclude blacks from those willing to hire?

[norskgoy]

Arbeidsgiveren som er rasist kan gjøre mye ondt

 

Nop. Det kan hun ikke.

[jjkoggan]

It may come as shocking news to you but thousands o folks are dying every day, all around the world, basically because nobody will sell them health services or medicine to keep them alive a little longer at a loss.

 

And this justifies letting some die because of the color of their skin? Try again. Besides denial of services is very rare in wealthy nations

Now do you claim that blacks discriminate against blacks, since nobody presumably will also exclude blacks from those willing to hire?

If minorities are denied education and forced into poverty through racist denial of resources from banks, etc.. There would be few if any minority employers to work for. You need to study a little American history - rampant racism led to slave-like conditions and open murder and hangings even though existing laws forbade it