Jeg har ingen nasjonalitet

[jjkoggan]

If you are saying that people from all cultures relate to things in the same way to the same degree, especially if they have not experienced the same thing I think you are dead wrong

 

British humor is funnier to Brits on average than it is to Americans and vice versa. I have no doubt that you relate to and love SNL but I think that you may not relate to this skit in the same way as an American who has Czech cousins who behaved similarly as those guys speaks broken English in the same way.

 

These are facts that are not meant to be condescending and I am glad you love SNL but reading about something and experiencing something are two different things You can most assuredly relate to me your life experiences and inside jokes but i will in no way understand them at the visceral level that you do. I will also not be offended if you say that I can't relate to them like you do. It's just a fact of life

 

Perhaps you thought the skit was notvery funny or long lasting but the fact that is repeatedly used and celebrated on american tv as a classic above hundreds of other skits does not support your hypothesis I only use culture as a possible explanation as to why you disagree

[Shruggie]

Averages are not individuals. This is actually the entire basis of antiracism. You're a bigot, and if I wasn't european, it'd be obvious to anyone that you were a racist. Just cause I'm not born in the fantastic Americas™ I can never understand Proper Comedy the way you can. Noone born outside America could ever fit into your society. Black people can never be American.

 

You know what? You're about the biggest douchebag on this entire forum.

Endret 26. mars 2012 av tofagerl

[jjkoggan]

Ok, perhaps I misunderstood your original comment that the skit got "pretty old pretty fast". I interpreted that as a generalization of public opinion not a personal opinion so I offered a possible explanation of why there might be a difference in average public opinion in our two nations. I apoligize if i misunderstood

 

You have also somehow presumed that because I assert the obvious fact that deeper understanding comes from real experience that it comes from a position of arrogance or that this experience is somehow superior. Nothing could be further from the truth. What I know is if you truly see those you disagree with eye to eye and in great depth, the less you will disagree with them and the more empathy you will have for each others condition. I strive to reduce the superficial views with more nuanced, deeper understanding to promote goodwill and compromise.

This requires pointing out misperceptions and an acceptance of our own ignorance, including my own. Provincialism is a constant battle and one ofthe reasons I challenge myself to these fora, to understand the depths iof my own ignorance.

 

You seem to be very intelligent, I wish you didn't take things so personal or assume the worst I am also sorry if I misunderstood your initial comment

[Shruggie]

The problem is you're poining out what you think are "misperceptions" when they're actually differing opinions, because you see the world from a position where you're always right. That's what we here in the old countries call "being a douchebag" and we don't much care for it.

Endret 26. mars 2012 av tofagerl

[jjkoggan]

The problem is you're poining out what you think are "misperceptions" when they're actually differing opinions, because you see the world from a position where you're always right. That's what we here in the old countries call "being a douchebag" and we don't much care for it.

 

Sorry you feel that way, rather than a blanket statement calling me a racist, bigot and a douchebag, please show me what gave you that impression in my last postings so I dont repeat the same mistakes because to me, stating that different cultures perceive humor differently is not an arrogant assertion.

Endret 26. mars 2012 av jjkoggan

[Shruggie]

That would be this part:

 

The same is true for SNL to Norwegians You just can't get it like we do, especially the subtle language twists. This is not to say you can't understand it, only that it won't strike you in the same way without being raised in the same culture. It's the old rule that once you explain the joke it is no longer funny

 

Explain to me please how this is different from saying that "black people don't like golf".

[jjkoggan]

That would be this part:

 

The same is true for SNL to Norwegians You just can't get it like we do, especially the subtle language twists. This is not to say you can't understand it, only that it won't strike you in the same way without being raised in the same culture. It's the old rule that once you explain the joke it is no longer funny

 

Explain to me please how this is different from saying that "black people don't like golf".

 

A better comparison would be to say that people(black or otherwise) who have played little or no golf just can't appreciate the subtlleties of the golf game the same way that those that have played it for years do. The smell of the grass, the feel on your hands when you hit the sweet spot on the club (or not) is difficult to perceive in the same way without playing the game yourself.

 

I think most people would agree with the perception that those who never experienced things directly have a different less visceral perception than those who do, regardless of race, creed, or nationality. I can see how you might take offense to the statement but I am guessing that if we were discussing a remote tribe in the Amazon you might not take offense or think it is racist to state that most Norwegians or Americans can't appreciate the intricacies of jungle life the same way the tribal members do since we have never lived there.

 

It would be bigoted and racist , on the other hand to state that because of my race, creed or nationality that Norwegians could never come to develop similar levels of appreciation as the locals and this is not what I have ever said. I have only said that deeper knowledge lies in experiencing things first hand.

 

To be honest I could have used better language and said -perceptions can vary based on life experiences and those different experiences can lead us to laugh at different things in different ways (not better ways). Since we live in different countries with different experiences we may not appreciate exactly the same type of jokes in the same way. What is very funny in Norway may not be as funny to as many people in the USA and vice versa.

 

 

Thanks for making me see something in a different way. It seemed inane to me but now I understand.

[Shruggie]

Yes, but you also assume that all black people, or me in this case, don't play golf, or watch SNL in this case.

 

Anyway, I know you don't mean to say it the way I hear it, but I think you should know what your words sound like to others.

Endret 27. mars 2012 av tofagerl

[Chad Thundercock]

Ingen som kan norsk lengere?

[Shruggie]

Jeg liker å strekke litt på engelskbeina når jeg har anledning

[jjkoggan]

Yes, but you also assume that all black people, or me in this case, don't play golf, or watch SNL in this case.

this is probably the basis of the misunderstanding I said those who don't play golf be they black or otherwise not that blacks don't play golf. I also am talking not about the experience of watching SNL but about the experience of living in America which is the source of SNL comedy, making caricatures of things they see around them Those who live in the same culture and know people who act like those who they are making fun of can relate to the caricatures differently than those who only witness these on tv. I can watch Fleksnes every day for 5 years but if I never spend much time in Norway and don't have much personal experience with aspects of culture he is making fun of I can't relate to it as well as those that do. The american immigrant experience is something most Americans relate to well and consequently relate to caricatures of it in a different way than those who don't have a strange uncle who hasn't quite adapted to his new American world yet

[Shruggie]

Aaaand you're back to being offensive.

[jjkoggan]

Aaaand you're back to being offensive.

Do you believe living in Norway and watching documentaries on it to be equivalent in terms of your depth if understanding and perceptions? Can you know as much about the amazon jungle as the indigenous people who live there without hanging around with them? Since they would have different perspectives living in the jungle don't you think you might not get their word play humor like they do?

 

Why is it offensive to say that different cultures have different types of humor or that I mightn't get the inside jokes about yourfamily like you do?

 

[Wyrd]

Jeg har altså et problem. Eivind Reitan og hans islandske motpart (som garantert finnes) mener at jeg ikke har noen nasjonalitet!

 

Hva synes dere om dette?

 

Nordmenn og islendinger er så nært beslektede (det var jo nordmenn som koloniserte Island på vikingtiden!), at jeg personlig ikke ser noe problem i om du kaller deg nordmann. Personlig ser jeg like mye på meg selv som skandinav eller nordisk av etnisitet, da skillelinjene ikke er så tydelige på dette området om du ser bort ifra de strekene som er dratt opp på kartet.

 

Jeg vil forøvrig skille mellom etnisitet og statsborgerskap.

Norsk statsborgerskap er i disse dager et formelt, offentlig medlemskap det ikke er spesielt vanskelig å oppnå. Etnisitet er organisk, og har et element av blodsbånd, i tillegg til den kulturelle faktoren. Eksempler på etnisitet kan være nordmenn (eventuelt skandinaver, eller nordiske i en utvidet definisjon), inuiter, buskmenn, zuluer, hopi-indianere og australske aboriginer. Dette handler ikke om et offentlig papir eller passport, men om blod, historie, kultur, tradisjon og felles identitet som basert på alt dette.

Å være "amerikansk" er et utmerket eksempel på statsborgerskap uten hensyn til noen av disse tingene.

 

Mennesker utenifra kan naturligvis over tid bli del av en etnisk gruppe, men da kreves det omfattende assimilering til den grad at disse menneskenes etterkommere blir ett med den etniske gruppens genpol, kultur og identitet.

[Pseudopod]

er du islandsk så har du jo nesten "renere" norske genere enn de fleste nordmenn

[Shruggie]

Ikke bare nesten. Men det gjør deg ikke mer Nordmann, det gjør deg mindre Nordmann. I Norge snakker vi i dag dansk og har en kultur som praktisk talt er piratkopiert fra USA. Det har ikke Island.

[gulpetter]

^ Det gjeld berre austlandet.

[Shruggie]

Å så absolutt ikke! Hele landet ble dansk etter svartedauen. Nynorsk kom 500 år etterpå.

[Wyrd]

er du islandsk så har du jo nesten "renere" norske genere enn de fleste nordmenn

 

Vel, det finnes også en del keltisk inflytelse i den islandske genpolen, selv om det nordiske helt klart er dominerende. Men det samme kan sies om Norge i større eller mindre grad alt ettersom hvilken del av landet man prater om.

Genetisk sett står ikke vi nordmenn særlig langt fra irer, da:

 

 

Grunnet felles indo-europeisk opphav tilbake i tiden... Ikke for å si at det ikke også finnes genetiske variasjoner innenfor Europa, for det gjør det. Spesielt mellom nord og sør.

[Shruggie]

Den samme keltiske innflytelsen var jo i Norge. Og omvendt, vikingene hadde enormt sterke bånd til de britiske øyer.