Verden får et nytt land

[ape i båt]

Søndag går innbyggerne i det kristne Sør-Sudan til valgurnene for å stemme over løsrivelse fra den muslimske naboen i nord. Valgmålingene tyder på et overveldende flertall for løsrivelse, mellom 95 og 97 prosent! Det går altså mot et nytt land på verdenskartet. Løsrivelsen vil medføre at Sudan mister sin status som det største landet i Afrika og i den muslimske verden, til fordel for Algerie.

 

 

Hva synes vi om dette? Kan innbyggerne i det nye landet vente seg mer frihet enn under muslimsk styre?

 

VG

Endret 7. januar 2011 av ape i båt

[Gjest Bruker-95147]

Det er vel overhengende fare for at den eventuelle økte friheten kommer til å koste noe!?

[After Dark]

Umulig å si. Se på uenigheten rundt Kosovos løsrivelse. Se på hvor fastlåst saken rundt Israel-Palestina er. Somalialand har oplevd suksess i forhold til resten av Somalia, men ingen har anerkjen det som uavhengi av den grunn. Og Vest-Sahara er like okkupert av Marokko den dag i dag og behandles i FN som Afrikas siste kolonisak.

 

Så hva en eventuel løsrivelse vil føre til er umulig å si på forhånd. Kan fort bli til enda et eksempel for andre som ønsker uavhengihet slik Kosovo ble.

[ape i båt]

For meg er disse menneskene i Sør-Sudan helter. Jeg håper det går i orden, og at så mange mennesker i verden får slippe å leve under islamistiske styrer.

 

Sudan:

Befolkningens gjennomsnittsalder er 17,7 år (2002), mens spedbarnsdødeligheten er på 9,0 % (2008) Landet har ca. 70 % sunni-muslimer (mest i nord), 5 % kristne (mest i sør og i Khartoum) og 25 % som tilhører andre religioner. Militære regimer som favoriserer islam-orienterte regjeringer har dominert Sudans innenrikspolitikk siden landet ble selvstendig. Sudan har en demokratisk forfatning, men i praksis blir landet styrt av et militærdiktatur. Den nåværende regjeringen er en blanding av høyere militære og et islamistisk parti. Denne grupperingen kom til makten i 1989 gjennom et kupp, da ble også de strenge sharia-lovene innført. I 2007 var 42 % av den voksne befolkningen analfabeter.

[After Dark]

Jeg er fult klar over at Sudan ikke er noe gdt land, men det er aldri det landet eller den konflikten jeg har interessert meg mest for. Har dog startet tråder om andre konflikter i Afrika samt om problemene der generelt. Poenget mitt var dessuten at det er umulig å si hva slags reaksjoner løsrivelsen vil få. Blir spennende å se. Om det blir anerkjent blir også spennende å se.

[ape i båt]

Ja, det er umulig å si hva som skjer. Det blir opp til sudaneserne.

[Huggslangen]

Jeg lurer på hvor lenge det er til det første nordeuropeiske landet løsriver seg på samme grunnlag. Dette har vi sett før på Balkan, og vi ser forsøk på det samme i Tjetjenia (men fra motsatt hold), og nå ser vi det i nord Afrika. Kanskje det blir et Asiatisk land neste gang?

[After Dark]

Ja, det er umulig å si hva som skjer. Det blir opp til sudaneserne.

 

Akkurat hvilke reaksjoner det vil få og om det blir anekrjent er opp til omverden.

[Rampage]

Siden det virket å være et stort ønske om å diskutere Malmös løsrivelse så tror jeg vi tar det i en egen tråd. Hvis trådstarter endrer førsteinnlegget til et mer omfattende innlegg (lik den andre tråden) som inviterer til debatt så kan jeg også flytte det tilbake til hovedkategorien. Kommentarer tas på PM.

[After Dark]

Sør-Sudan er på vei til frihet:

 

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/verden/1.7454405

 

Siste marsj mot friheten:

 

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/verden/1.7454459

[PzMan]

 

Hva synes vi om dette? Kan innbyggerne i det nye landet vente seg mer frihet enn under muslimsk styre?

 

VG

 

 

I og med at diktaturet i nord holder med på slaveri, folkemord og andre spennende aktiviteter så er det udelt positivt for borgere av Sør-Sudan å ikke være en del av det.

 

Hva som kommer til skje etter løsrivelsen blir spennende å se - det ennå ikke definerte grenseområdet mellom sør og nord blir konflikttema samtidig som oljeforekomstene i sør og detaljene rundt disse kan lede til nye spenninger.

 

Men (og det er alltid en men) utviklingen i Afrika etter kolonialtiden har dessverre ofte vist at nåtidens frihetskjemper blir altfor ofte fremtidens diktatorer som bruker frigjøringskrigen som legitimering av sine regimer. Senest eksempel på dette er Eritrea og i mindre grad Rwanda.

 

Så man får vente tjue til tretti år før man kan konkludere om løsrivelsen genuint førte til mer frihet for den vanlige Sør-Sudaneren.

 

edit: 'leif

Endret 8. januar 2011 av PzMan

[After Dark]

Et godt eksempel på det du snakker om her er jo uavhengiheten til Zimbabwe og regimet til Robert Mugabe. Imidlertid tror jeg ikke noen som erklærer seg uavhengi nå vil ende opp sånn. Det er altfor stor oppmerksomhet på en stats styresett i disse dager og de trenger støtte for å få anerkjennelse og økonomisk bistand/hjelp om de trenger det.

[PzMan]

Et godt eksempel på det du snakker om her er jo uavhengiheten til Zimbabwe og regimet til Robert Mugabe. Imidlertid tror jeg ikke noen som erklærer seg uavhengi nå vil ende opp sånn. Det er altfor stor oppmerksomhet på en stats styresett i disse dager og de trenger støtte for å få anerkjennelse og økonomisk bistand/hjelp om de trenger det.

 

Det er ikke gitt at man vil ende opp med et diktatur. Det er bare et av mange mulige utfall. Jeg bare viste til at "uavhengighets erklæring -> mer frihet" ikke nødvendigvis alltid stemmer.

 

Eritrea som jeg viste til er jo en moderne eksempel på at verdens oppmerksomhet på styresett i et land X er egentlig ikke en variabel med mindre stormaktenes interesser tilsier at det er fordel med demokrati i et land X. USA og EU begynte høylytt å kritisere regimet i Eritrea først når disse begynte å støtte ekstremistene i Somalia (fordi disse var imot Etiopia, Eritreas fiende).

 

Det samme gjelder økonomisk bistand og uhjelp - med Kina som en av de store aktørene når det gjelder bistand i Afrika nå om dagen, påvirkningskraften den økonomiske bistanden fra Europa og USA hadde på 90-tallet er blitt mindre. Regimene i Afrika har rett og slett flere alternativer. Og hvis regimet i Nord blir mer ekstremistisk så tror jeg egentlig Vesten vil nødig gjøre noe som kan destabilisere Sør-Sudan.

Endret 8. januar 2011 av PzMan

[After Dark]

Skjebnessvanger folkeavstemming starter i Sudan:

 

http://www.tv2nyhetene.no/utenriks/korrespondenten/skjebnessvanger-folkeavstemming-starter-i-sudan-3382562.html

[After Dark]

Kiir ber om varig fred i Sudan:

 

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/verden/1.7455182

 

Flere drept i Sudan dagen før folkeavstemning:

 

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/verden/1.7455265

[Huggslangen]

Samtidig som marsjen går, truer arabiske ledere med hellig krig,ifølge en hjelpeorganisasjon.

 

Fredag sendte 17 arabiske ledere ifølge nettstedet Sudanile.com ut en felles uttalelse der de avviser folkeavstemningen i Sør-Sudan, som de betegner som en konspirasjon fra Vesten.

 

I kommunikeet, som i alt 67 personer skal ha undertegnet, heter det også at de arabiske lederne vil gå til jihad, hellig krig, dersom Sudan blir delt i to.

 

Fy faen!

Sør-Sudan blir den nye arena for terror og folkemord, og sivilbefolkningen i et av verdens fattigste land blir skadelidende. Vil verdenssamfunnet bidra med fredsbevarende styrker?

[After Dark]

Du kan ikke uten videre "spå" at det blir resultatet.

[After Dark]

Klar for løsrivelse:

 

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article3979473.ece

 

I dag velger Sør-Sudan frihet:

 

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article3979655.ece

 

Valglokalene i Sør-Sudan åpnet:

 

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article3979795.ece

[Kaarerekanraadi]

Må si at jeg vet lite om hva som foregår i Sudan. Det er olje der og i tillegg Darfur.

[Huggslangen]

Konflikten kan oppsummeres svært enkelt:

 

Frykten for at en løsrivelse i sør skal utløse en ny krig mellom det arabiskdominerte, muslimske Nord-Sudan og det afrikanske, kristne sør har likevel ikke helt sluppet taket. I Juba diskuteres det høyt og lavt om hva som kan komme til å skje når den nye nasjonen er født.

 

 

Sudan jihad forces Islam

on Christians

Women refusing to convert gang-raped, mutilated, says relief worker

 

FAITH UNDER FIRE

Sudan jihad forces Islam

on Christians

Women refusing to convert gang-raped, mutilated, says relief worker

Posted: March 04, 2002

1:00 am Eastern

 

By Art Moore

© 2010 WorldNetDaily.com

 

 

 

Sudan's militant Muslim regime is slaughtering Christians who refuse to convert to Islam, according to the head of an aid group who recently returned from the African nation.

 

The forced conversions are just one aspect of the Khartoum government's self-declared jihad on the mostly Christian and animist south, Dennis Bennett, executive director of Seattle-based Servant's Heart told WorldNetDaily.

 

Villagers in several areas of the northeast Upper Nile region say that when women are captured by government forces they are asked: "Are you Christian or Muslim?"

 

Women who answer "Muslim" are set free, but typically soldiers gang-rape those who answer "Christian" then cut off their breasts and leave them to die as an example for others.

 

Bennett says these stories are corroborated by witnesses from several tribes in the region. Upon returning to the U.S., he wrote a letter to influential members of Congress and activists.

 

"After witnessing once again the situation on the ground there," Bennett wrote, "I must ask 'How long will the United States government allow the Government of Sudan to continue its jihad against the Black African Christians of South Sudan?'"

 

Backed by Muslim clerics, the National Islamic Front regime in the Arab and Muslim north declared a jihad, or holy war, on the south in 1989. Since 1983, an estimated 2 million people have died from war and related famine. About 4.5 million have become refugees.

 

Sudan's holy war against the south was reaffirmed in October by First Vice President Ali Osman Taha.

 

"The jihad is our way, and we will not abandon it and will keep its banner high," he said to a brigade of mujahedin fighters heading for the war front, according to Sudan's official SUNA news agency. "We will never sell out our faith and will never betray the oath to our martyrs."

 

The U.S. House of Representatives adopted a resolution finding that Khartoum is "systematically committing genocide," but current legislation that would impose sanctions has been stalled. The Sudan Peace Act is opposed by both the White House and Wall Street.

 

Sanctions in the House version of the bill target oil revenues that Khartoum is using to fuel its war effort. Bennett, with 20 years experience in international risk management and banking, said he was the first to probe the link between oil and jihad that is now documented and publicized by human rights groups. His research began in 1996 when he asked: If you're the government of Sudan and you're broke, how are you paying for your war?

 

In his letter urging action by the U.S., he points out that Sudan's military continues to decorate and promote known war criminals such as Commander Taib Musba, who in the mid-1980s killed an estimated 15,000 unarmed, civilian, ethnic Uduk Christians.

 

In 1986, Musba entered the Uduk tribal capital of Chali and declared to its Christians: "You are all going to convert from Christianity to Islam today, because here is what's going to happen to you if you don't."

 

Musba then killed five church leaders in front of the gathered villagers. When they refused to convert, he began killing unarmed men, women and children. Some were herded at gunpoint into a hut then run over by a 50-ton, Soviet-made tank.

 

He also herded groups of about a dozen people into a hut, where he asked the first person "Do you renounce Jesus Christ?" Anyone who refused was killed by a three-inch nail driven into the top of the head.

 

The U.N. high commissioner for refugees granted the Uduks international refugee status in 1992 after investigating the atrocities, but almost as many died during the six years they waited for the declaration.

 

Islam also is forced on Sudanese in the Muslim north. Security police in Khartoum are pursuing a local convert to Christianity who went into hiding three weeks ago to escape arrest and possible death, the Compass Direct news service reports. Aladin Omer Agabni Mohammed, who left Islam 11 years ago to become a Christian, is subject to the death penalty under Sudanese criminal law for "apostasy." According to a church leader, two other converts face a similar situation.

 

Forced starvation

 

Bennett says that in addition to the more immediate, readily apparent atrocities taking place, there is a slower, less perceptive persecution that is equally deadly.

 

Forced starvation is one of the primary tools of the Khartoum regime, he says. When government forces attack a Christian village, they kill everyone they catch, but those who flee lose everything necessary for survival.

 

"The government comes in and burns the crops, burns grain stored if there was any excess, burns houses down," Bennett said. "Now you have only the clothes on your back, no tools, no cooking pots, no buckets for water, and you have to run two days through the bush in 115-degree temperatures in order to escape."

 

In the arid wilderness, escapees try to survive on tree leaves and stagnant, dysentery-infested water. If a women is breastfeeding, her milk dries up, Bennett said, and the baby starts dying. Small children, just weaned, also start dying.

 

"But all the family has to do is change their name to Muhammad or Ramadan, convert to Islam and walk the two days back to the government of Sudan who will care for them," he said.

 

Last year, the government of Sudan burned all the crops in the area where Bennett's group works.

 

"There wasn't anything to harvest," he said. "Literally we saw people eating roots and tree leaves. It's like eating the nutritional properties of cardboard. It's enough to put something in your stomach but not enough to feed you."

 

A food drop came from the U.N. World Food Program, he said, "but they never came in to do an assessment; they just dropped it from the air."

 

As the "hungry season" approaches – the rainy period of June, July and early August – emergency food supplies become critical. Servant's Heart believes it will need to feed 50,000 people in its area during that time.

 

Slavery as tool of terror

 

Slavery is another tool of the National Islamic Front regime, though Bennett says it is not known in the northeast Upper Nile region, mainly because of lack of transportation.

 

Western Bahr El Ghazal is one location where it persists because the railroad line allows captured men, women and children to be taken to slave markets in the north.

 

"If you want to end systematic slavery, blow up the train line and keep it blown up," Bennett said.

 

The ongoing controversy surrounding slave redemption – the practice of buying freedom promoted by some humanitarian groups – arose again in the past week when the Irish Times and Washington Post published exposes acknowledging the existence of slavery in Sudan but alleging that fake slave redemption is taking place.

 

Bennett respects the work of groups buying back the slaves, but he believes it is inevitable that some will be conned. Engaging in the practice is a matter of individual conscience, he says.

 

"Anytime you have tens of thousands of American dollars coming into an area you've got potential problems of corruption," Bennett said.

 

He says the "jury is still out" on whether it fuels the market by increasing demand.

 

"Slave-taking would still be happening even if nobody was buying back slaves," he said. "Maybe not to the full extent."

 

But he believes it's important to keep in mind that taking slaves is "just one more facet of the jihad against the civilian population" in southern Sudan. The methods may vary in different parts of the country, but the aim is the same.

 

"In the Uduk tribe, Taib Musba drove three-inch nails into people's heads," he said. "In northeast Upper Nile, they are gang-raping women and cutting off their breasts; in western Bahr El Ghazal, they are capturing women and selling them as slaves."

 

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=12985

 

 

 

 

Sudan Islamists kill more women, children

Latest assault in 'scorched-earth' effort to secure oil-rich area

 

Sudan Islamists kill more women, children

Latest assault in 'scorched-earth' effort to secure oil-rich area

Posted: February 22, 2002

1:00 am Eastern

 

By Art Moore

© 2010 WorldNetDaily.com

 

 

 

Helicopter gunships of Sudan's militant Islamic regime killed at least 17 civilians, including women and children, and seriously injured many others during relief distribution by the U.N.'s World Food Program, according to international workers.

 

The attack on Wednesday, which followed a similar assault less than two weeks ago, is part of the National Islamic Front's "scorched-earth policy" aimed at ridding the oil-rich area of civilians, says Eric Reeves, a noted Sudan researcher and analyst at Smith College in Massachusetts.

 

"What Khartoum is bent on doing with those oil revenues is to acquire additional military assets in order to complete its self-described jihad" against the mostly Christian and animist south, Reeves told WorldNetDaily.

 

That assessment is backed by at least four separate reports, conducted by the Canadian government and Amnesty International in 2000, and last year by the group Christian Aid and a British-Canadian human rights team.

 

"Khartoum wants to effect a final solution to what they perceive as their southern problem," Reeves said. "And it is truly genocidal in ambition."

 

Backed by Muslim clerics, the National Islamic Front regime in the Arab and Muslim north is waging a campaign to force Islam on the south. Since 1983, an estimated 2 million people have died from the war and attendant famine. About 4.5 million have become refugees.

 

The U.S. House of Representatives in 1999 overwhelmingly adopted a resolution finding that "the National Islamic Front government is deliberately and systematically committing genocide in southern Sudan, the Nuba Mountains, and the Ingressa Hills."

 

The House has passed a bill, the Sudan Peace Act, that would impose capital market sanctions on the oil companies operating in the country, denying them New York Stock Exchange listings. But the Senate version does not include those sanctions and the bill is in limbo, awaiting a conference to reconcile the two versions.

 

The bill is opposed by the White House and Wall Street, Reeves notes.

 

"A measure that was introduced into the Senate by Republican Senator Bill Frist in July of 1999 is in February of 2002 being held up by the Senate Republican leadership," he said. "It's absolutely a disgrace to the legislative process."

 

The attack on the Bieh relief center in Western Upper Nile followed assaults on the Akuem and Nimni centers Feb. 9 that killed several people, including children.

 

On Wednesday, a helicopter hovered over the World Food Program compound and fired five rockets into an area where "a large number of vulnerable people had gathered, waiting to receive food," the WFP said in a statement yesterday condemning the attack. WFP says it had a team of two people on the ground to distribute 76 metric tons of food to 10,000 people.

 

WFP Executive Director Catherine Bertini called the deliberate targeting of "civilians about to receive humanitarian assistance" an "intolerable affront to human life and to humanitarian work."

 

After initially denying the Feb. 9 attack, Khartoum issued a statement Feb. 13 expressing its "profound regrets" over the bombing at Akuem in Bahr el-Ghazal province, insisting that it was a "technical error" and promising that it would not happen again.

 

"What's significant about that," Reeves said, "is that they did not acknowledge what they knew at the time – that there already had been another attack on Nimni the same day, 160 miles east."

 

The attack this week "makes nonsense of pledging there would be no repeat of the incident," Reeves said, "to have a helicopter gunship fire rockets into thousands of people gathered at a U.N. World Food Program center to receive emergency food aid. This is just despicable prevarication."

 

On the day of the Feb. 9 attack, Khartoum Minister of Foreign Affairs Mustafa Uthman Isma'il conducted an interview in Washington with the C-SPAN television network in which he denied his regime oppressed Christians and abetted slavery.

 

Meanwhile, Islamic law has been applied to a pregnant Christian woman who received 75 lashes for allegedly committing adultery, according to U.K.-based Christian Solidarity Worldwide.

 

Abok Alfa Akok, 18, whose death sentence was overturned by a Sudanese appeals court, contends that she was raped while her husband was away for six months. However, she was unable to produce the four male witnesses required by Islamic law to validate her statement.

 

The appeals court overturned Abok's sentence following international protest and recommended that she receive a "rebuke" sentence instead.

 

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26566