Ye Olde Premier League Pub

[Sexylubb1]

Minner om analysen et byrå laget av arbeidsplassen jeg jobber på. Mye KPI og regnskapstall. Lite kontakt med hva vi faktisk holder på med.

[Espp]

Forsto ikke helt hva du mente Sexylubb1?

[KANE2009]

http://www.nettavisen.no/sport/fotball/england-og-skottland-trosser-fifas-valmueforbud/3423279221.html

 

Mulig jeg virker veldig historieløs nå, men FIFA har begrunnet at de ikke skal få lov til å bruke valmuen med at "Det står tydelig at spillernes utstyr ikke skal inneholde politiske, religiøse eller kommersielle budskap". Hvilket budskap prater de om? Jeg trodde valmuen ble brukt for å minnes de som har dødd i krig?

Endret 3. november 2016 av KANE2009

[PrettyBoy]

Asian invasion:

http://www.nettavisen.no/sport/fotball/premierleague/kinesere-vil-overta-southampton/3423279227.html

[Benbjo]

http://www.nettavisen.no/sport/fotball/england-og-skottland-trosser-fifas-valmueforbud/3423279221.html

 

Mulig jeg virker veldig historieløs nå, men FIFA har begrunnet at de ikke skal få lov til å bruke valmuen med at "Det står tydelig at spillernes utstyr ikke skal inneholde politiske, religiøse eller kommersielle budskap". Hvilket budskap prater de om? Jeg trodde valmuen ble brukt for å minnes de som har dødd i krig?

Krig handler jo forsåvidt om politikk da.

[Gjest Slettet-D7I5Gr2]

Kandidatene til månedens trener:

Jürgen Klopp (Liverpool), Antonio Conte (Chelsea), Mark Hughes (Stoke City) and Arsene Wenger (Arsenal).

 

Kandidatene til månedens spiller:

Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool), Joe Allen (Stoke City), Diego Costa (Chelsea), Ilkay Gundogan (Manchester City), Eden Hazard (Chelsea), Tom Heaton (Burnley) og N’Golo Kante (Chelsea).

 

Wenger er vell shoe inn og kanskje Heaton vinner ?

Endret 4. november 2016 av Slettet-D7I5Gr2

[Espp]

Hva med Mourinho og Rooney da? Skuffende.

[Emils.]

Kandidatene til månedens trener:

Jürgen Klopp (Liverpool), Antonio Conte (Chelsea), Mark Hughes (Stoke City) and Arsene Wenger (Arsenal).

 

Kandidatene til månedens spiller:

Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool), Joe Allen (Stoke City), Diego Costa (Chelsea), Ilkay Gundogan (Manchester City), Eden Hazard (Chelsea), Tom Heaton (Burnley) og N’Golo Kante (Chelsea).

 

Wenger er vell shoe inn og kanskje Heaton vinner ?

Wenger?

4-1 Mot Sunderland

0-0 mot Middlesbrough

3-1 mot Swansea

1-0 mot Burnley

 

Conte har jo snudd Chelsea skuta og høvla over United og Leicester. 2-0 mot Saints og Hull borte. Ingen innslupne.

[Snikpellik]

Conte og Heaton bør vinne. Eventuelt Joe Allen.

[Benbjo]

Coutinho, den beste spilleren i ligaen i følge mange og Conte tar det.

 

Wenger får det i alle fall ikke. Laget har vært dårlig mot svak motstand hele mnd.

[Teitgutt]

Aguero edger Coutinho på å vere best i ligaen etter mitt syn. De Gea også, om ein reknar med keeper, og det synest eg ein skal.

[knipsolini]

Både Aguero og Dea Gea har vel vært under pari i oktober. Aguero var vel skadet i starten av måneden også.

[Teitgutt]

Joda, form er ein ting, men då finst det periodar der eg reknar t.d. Firmino også som over Coutinho. Men akkurat no er nok Coutinho best.

[Golf'ern]

Kandidatene til månedens trener:

Jürgen Klopp (Liverpool), Antonio Conte (Chelsea), Mark Hughes (Stoke City) and Arsene Wenger (Arsenal).

 

Kandidatene til månedens spiller:

Philippe Coutinho (Liverpool), Joe Allen (Stoke City), Diego Costa (Chelsea), Ilkay Gundogan (Manchester City), Eden Hazard (Chelsea), Tom Heaton (Burnley) og N’Golo Kante (Chelsea).

 

Wenger er vell shoe inn og kanskje Heaton vinner ?

 

vil si at 4 strake med Stoke er bedre gjort! Hughes bør få den, og Allen eller Costa bør få den andre.

[knipsolini]

Joda, form er ein ting, men då finst det periodar der eg reknar t.d. Firmino også som over Coutinho. Men akkurat no er nok Coutinho best.

Jeg ser ikke helt poenget ditt. Hverken Aguero eller De Gea har vært blant de PLs beste i oktober, så hvor er parallellen til Firmino og Coutinho?

[Teitgutt]

Eg snakkar ikkje om oktober. Eg snakkar om kven som faktisk er dei beste spelarane jamnt over. Sjølv om United sliter no, er De Gea objektivt ein av dei aller beste keeperane i verda, og det er ikkje poeng i å seie noko mot Aguero. Fyren er klasse. Coutinho er klasse i form, og akkurat no kanskje ligaens beste spelar, men Firmino kan fort vere betre enn ein gjennomsnittleg Coutinho. Så ja. Eg er med på at Coutinho i dagens form er der oppe som ligaens beste spelar, men det er snakk om korleis han presterer akkurat no. Coutinho er klasse når Liverpool er gode, og Firmino også, men eg stryker ikkje Aguero og De Gea frå topplista basert på det.

[Gjest Slettet-D7I5Gr2]

Det er jo greit, men diskusjonen var om hvem som fortjener å vinne månedens spiller i oktober.

 

De Gea har ikke vært best så langt i sesongen.

Endret 5. november 2016 av Slettet-D7I5Gr2

[KANE2009]

 

http://www.nettavisen.no/sport/fotball/england-og-skottland-trosser-fifas-valmueforbud/3423279221.html

 

Mulig jeg virker veldig historieløs nå, men FIFA har begrunnet at de ikke skal få lov til å bruke valmuen med at "Det står tydelig at spillernes utstyr ikke skal inneholde politiske, religiøse eller kommersielle budskap". Hvilket budskap prater de om? Jeg trodde valmuen ble brukt for å minnes de som har dødd i krig?

Krig handler jo forsåvidt om politikk da.

 

Jeg er enig i at det å bestemme om man skal invadere/bli med å invadere et annet land etc, er politikk, men det å minnes døde soldater ser jeg på som lite politisk. Kanskje bare jeg som har et rart syn på det.

[Gjest Slettet-D7I5Gr2]

Ingen tidligkamp,kjipt!

[Latias]

Jeg er enig i at det å bestemme om man skal invadere/bli med å invadere et annet land etc, er politikk, men det å minnes døde soldater ser jeg på som lite politisk. Kanskje bare jeg som har et rart syn på det.

Det var ikke ment som et politisk symbol, men har på mange måter blitt nettopp det de siste årene.

 

On Wednesday, the holder of the most senior political office in the land addressed hundreds of politicians at the seat of British political power and told them that FIFA's refusal to allow poppies to be worn by England's footballers is “utterly outrageous.”

 

In doing so, the Prime Minister did a great service to the country and to the spirit of the debate that is currently taking place. No longer can anyone claim with a straight face that poppies are not political.

 

We knew that anyway. That some, rightly or wrongly, refuse to wear them and some, again rightly or wrongly, believe them to be symbols that they associate with British military oppression makes them so.

 

We can't just ignore that and pretend that such views do not exist because we either disagree with them or want the poppy to stand for something purer than politics. Such opposition is real and has to be treated as such.

 

That is why FIFA have taken the stance that they have. It isn't anti-British and it isn't anti-remembrance: it's anti-division. If one man's symbol of commemoration is another man's symbol of subjugation, how could they, as a sporting governing body, acquiesce to the kind of demands made by the Football Association and the Prime Minister?

 

England and the other home nations are not being singled out, they are being treated exactly the same as every other member association. It is fair and it is even.

 

Writing in the Daily Mail earlier this week, the widely respected Martin Samuel nailed the issue. His words are worthy of repetition, particularly given the media outlet that they appeared in.

 

“FIFA consider this a political gesture, a stance that in turn outrages those who feel it is vitally important that football — more than any other industry, apparently — remembers the dead of two world wars,” Samuel wrote.

 

“Except poppies are no longer just about those wars. They commemorate other, less popular conflicts, too. What if England were playing Argentina, Ireland or a country from the Middle East?

 

"Japan’s Yasukuni Shrine commemorates its war dead, including 14 men who are regarded as Class A war criminals. What if Japan wished to mark this at a football match in some way?

 

“For this reason, FIFA does not do war. In 2013, Josip Simunic of Croatia was banned for 10 matches for leading a crowd in Zagreb in a chant that was a relic of Second World War nationalism, when Croatia was governed by allies of the Nazis. He missed the World Cup, but the message was clear. FIFA cannot pick sides in every military event through history, so wisely keeps its counsel. For the greater good, all nations should respect this and do the same.”

 

The question many are asking, though, is how did we get here? How did we reach a stage where 98 years after the end of World War One and 71 years after World War Two came to an end that we suddenly feel it an absolute moral obligation for footballers to wear embroidered flowers on their shirts as a tribute to the fallen?

 

In order to answer that we have to return to the same newspaper because it was they who set these wheels in motion.

 

In 2009, the Mail's campaign for all Premier League clubs to have commemorative kits was a resounding success. Eighteen teams duly did so, with only Liverpool and Manchester United refusing to in keeping with their own club policies.

 

Less convincingly, they also suggested that the red colour of their shirts made it difficult to provide an effective canvas for poppies, an argument that was made redundant as soon as Arsenal found a way.

 

The following year, having been placed under intolerable pressure, Liverpool backed down with the intervention of their then manager being a significant factor. “Roy Hodgson wore a poppy at the last game against Blackburn and he feels it is very important. We will be wearing shirts with poppies against Stoke on November 13,” Liverpool said in a statement.

 

United, though, remained unmoved and released a statement of their own in order to underline their own position and in an attempt to ensure it was not misinterpreted as a snub. “We are proud of the work we do with the armed forces and we do not feel a poppy on the shirt would add to our contribution,” they said. “Our staff and officials will be wearing them as usual and we are confident we are doing the right thing.”

 

Once again the Mail, at the behest of its editor, Paul Dacre, refused to take no for an answer. United's desire to pay their respects as they always had done was suddenly not good enough, with an editorial piece in the Mail entitled “A simple message to Manchester United: Why won't you wear the poppy with pride?” informing them, if they did not know already, that this was an issue that was not about to go away however well meaning and dignified their traditional acts of remembrance had been. Furthermore, Liverpool's change of policy had left them isolated.

 

“Sadly, United are maintaining their stance in defiance of public opinion. Last year, Sir Alex Ferguson’s side faced Chelsea on Remembrance Sunday at Stamford Bridge in poppyless shirts, upsetting Chelsea Pensioners in the stands,” the Mail wrote. A year on and United bowed to the pressure. “Manchester United will wear poppies on their shirts when they face Aston Villa at Villa Park on November 13,” the Mail reported.

 

“The decision follows a Sportsmail campaign which has persuaded all 20 Premier League clubs to sport poppies for the first time on Remembrance weekend.”

 

Victory in our time, indeed, but the Mail were not finished there. Another year passed and with the Premier League having been conquered, their offensive went international. In a story headlined: “EXCLUSIVE: Poppy ban on England kit enforced 'in case we upset Germans',” the newspaper explained that “FIFA have insisted that England cannot wear poppies against Spain at Wembley — in case they one day meet Germany around the time of Remembrance Sunday.”

 

In actuality, FIFA were merely implementing their own rules. “FIFA has 208 Member Associations and the same regulations are applied globally, and uniformly, in the event of similar requests by other nations to commemorate historical events,” it said in a statement.

 

Nevertheless, the body did approve the FA's request to hold a minute's silence before kick-off and reluctantly allowed the England players to wear poppies on black arm bands. But as United had previously discovered, such a concession was never going to be enough, as the latest annual bout of poppygate has demonstrated.

 

On both sides there is intransigence and on both sides there is an aghast reaction to the opposition questioning either their logic or their motives. For those of us in the increasingly squeezed middle, those who believe in the individual's right to solemn contemplation and remembrance but also believe in the individual's right not to participate in such acts, the whole sorry saga is as dispiriting as it should have been avoidable and we are left with opportunist politicians, national newspapers and national associations using the issue to grandstand and divide.

 

On Sunday, like many people, I will remember those who died carrying out the will of politicians in wars all around the world. I will remember my own ancestors who perished and the ones who returned from battle only to be disowned by the very country who had sent them to fight on its behalf. And I will remember those whom they fought against. But I will not need a poppy to do so. Others will, though, and that should be respected absolutely and that is why we have services of remembrance up and down the country.

 

As they should and always have, those involved in the national game will pay their respects but they will do so against a wholly unnecessary and manufactured backdrop of acrimony and division.

 

As the Prime Minister quite rightly pointed out, FIFA urgently needs to get its own house in order, but their determination to prevent the game they govern from being turned into a political football should be respected.

 

In the unlikely event that that happens, maybe we could turn our attentions to asking why 10% of London's homeless population are ex-servicemen and why thousands of former military personnel suffer from mental illness and poverty.

 

Those are issues that should be taxing the Prime Minister's thoughts but then it's always been easier for politicians to jump aboard a populist bandwagon and to campaign on behalf of the dead than it is to ask themselves whether they are failing the living.

 

Poppies aren't just political, they are a convenient diversion for politicians to draw attention from the policies that fail so many of those who they claim to champion.