Islam - Steining av homofile?

[OrIoN89]

Homofili er veldig upraktisk når det kommer til darwinisme. Kanskje det er derfor dette var tabu? Hvorfor mate de som ikke kan føre sine gener videre? Pedofili vil ihvertfall føre arven vidre. Dette er kun ett objektivt syn på det og ikke mitt standpunkt.

[RWS]

Homofili er veldig upraktisk når det kommer til darwinisme. Kanskje det er derfor dette var tabu? Hvorfor mate de som ikke kan føre sine gener videre? Pedofili vil ihvertfall føre arven vidre. Dette er kun ett objektivt syn på det og ikke mitt standpunkt.

Nå er vi litt forbi det stadiet at vi "mater" noen, er vi ikke? Og homofili har da aldri vært noen issue for det du kaller "darwinisme", har det vel? Er vel snarere dogmene til de religiøse som har vært "dømmende" her, ikke darwins evolusjons teori...

 

Det neste du sier er vel at det var de kristne som kjempet frem likestilling....

[Baranladion]

Jeg og min kone(vært gift en mnd nå )(som ikke er kusina mi ;)snakket litt om dette her faktisk, når vi evt skulle få barn, hvis de evt skulle slutte å tro på Gud..Det vi kom fram til da er at vi skal lære barna våres under oppveksten deres at vi er en familie som tror på Gud, vi skal be til Gud osv. Vi vil også ha diskusjoner rundt relgionen, hvis de skulle være nysgjerrige på no. Gå litt mer inn i dybden i islam, og ikke bare si til dem det står i Koranen, slik er det..Skulle han eller hun slutte å tro på Gud, så vil vi bli veldig veldig skuffet over oss, hadde brukt mye tid, snakket med dem, om det var dette de virkelig ville, prøvd å forstå dem, snakke med dem, men det er ingen tvang i relgion, men vi kan lære bort om relgionen vår. De skal få lov til å gifte seg med hvem de vil, men det er ikke no vi oppmuntrer til, altså ikke-muslimer da, forklare dem om kulturkollisjoner, språk..Minne hverandre og barna på at vi er muslimer bla bla bla kan ikke gjøre sånt. Tror jeg da, kan helt sikkert skifte mening når vi virkelig har barn ikke vet jeg. Men det er de vi har tenkt så langt.

 

Jeg håper dere tenker over det når dere får barn, husk at de personene som barna ser opp til, UANSETT, er sine foreldre. Grunnen til at de blir religiøse og grunnen til at du er religiøs er fordi dine foreldre har oppdratt deg slik. Dette synes jeg er dårlig gjort, da man "ubevisst" pålegger barna en tro på noe som på ingen måte er bevist.

Godt spm, og jeg vet faktisk ikke svaret, men det jeg kan si er at livet er en test. Men jeg lurer fortsatt på er pedofili også noe man er født med på samme måte som homofili?Ikke bli sure for spm, jeg vet faktisk ikke, derfor jeg spør.

 

Tror du noen velger å bli pedofil? Zoofil? Nekrofil? Du vet selv hvordan slike mennesker blir sett på... Ingen har lyst til å bli utstøtt i ett samfunn, alikevel er det mange som har en legning som ikke godtas. Hvis man har ett valg, hvorfor?

 

Pedofili kan rettferdigjøres i mine øyne, men IKKE pedofile handlinger. Altså, en som er pedofil kan ikke noe for det, en som er homofil kan ikke noe for det, men en som misbruker barn kan ikke godtas, uansett.

En som har frivilig sex med en av samme kjønn har ikke jeg noen problemer med.

 

 

 

Koranen er en, men finnes alikvel forskjellige grener i islam, det vil vel alltid være noen som mistolker.

 

En allmektig gud med kun gode hensikter hadde ikke lagd rom for feiltolkninger, han vet bedre. En "allmektig" gud, skapt av mennesker kan være preget av samfunnet og strukturen på den tiden han ble "skapt", og det er vel strengt tatt det vi ser når man ser religiøse mennesker og deres oppførsel.

[Baranladion]

Edit: dobbeltpost

Endret 25. juni 2010 av McHalvorsen

[PrettyBoy]

Ah, gratulere!

Takk

Så du har ingen betenkeligheter med indoktrinering altså? Du "safer" og dytter på dem dette så fort som mulig?

Skal ikke drive med hjernvasking, men jeg skal lære barna mine fra tidlig alder at vi er muslimer. Mate dem litt og litt, og ha åpne diskusjoner rundt relgionen vår, gjøre det litt spennende da.

Men hvis imamen din sier at du bør ta tak i dette og "rette" inn poden din da? Vil du gjøre det da?

Imamen har vel ingenting å gjøre med min barneoppdragelse.

Jeg håper dere tenker over det når dere får barn, husk at de personene som barna ser opp til, UANSETT, er sine foreldre. Grunnen til at de blir religiøse og grunnen til at du er religiøs er fordi dine foreldre har oppdratt deg slik. Dette synes jeg er dårlig gjort, da man "ubevisst" pålegger barna en tro på noe som på ingen måte er bevist.

Det er jo ikke alltid det stemmer, siden foreldre er relgiøse derfor er barna det, og omvendt, men ja jeg fortsår hva du mener. Men jeg er villig til å ha åpne diskusjoner rundt islam med mine barn. Men skal ikke nekte for dem at vi er en muslimsk familie.

En allmektig gud med kun gode hensikter hadde ikke lagd rom for feiltolkninger, han vet bedre.

Helt enig, men det vil alltid være non som skal mistolke til deres eget beste, ikke vet jeg. Koranen snakker ikke om steining, plutselig er det en del av islam, dette kommer vel av gammle tradisjoner, blandet med kultur osv, slik at det har blitt en ekkel salat.

[Baranladion]

Det er jo ikke alltid det stemmer, siden foreldre er relgiøse derfor er barna det, og omvendt, men ja jeg fortsår hva du mener. Men jeg er villig til å ha åpne diskusjoner rundt islam med mine barn. Men skal ikke nekte for dem at vi er en muslimsk familie.

Åpne diskusjoner og mate barna litt og litt slik at religionen blir litt spennende(indoktrinering)... Hva med å la de gå på normal skole, fortelle dem at dere er troende muslimer, men la de selv gjøre seg en mening om hvordan det kan være? Ingenting er så lett å manipulere som barnesinn, hvorfor ikke la dem slippe religionsmaset til de blir gamle nok til å utforske dette selv, med en god utdannelse og vitenskapelig innsikt?

 

En allmektig gud med kun gode hensikter hadde ikke lagd rom for feiltolkninger, han vet bedre.

Helt enig, men det vil alltid være non som skal mistolke til deres eget beste, ikke vet jeg. Koranen snakker ikke om steining, plutselig er det en del av islam, dette kommer vel av gammle tradisjoner, blandet med kultur osv, slik at det har blitt en ekkel salat.

Jeg gjentar meg selv, en almektig og i overmåte god gud ville forutsett dette og ikke lagd den hellige boka med rom for slike tolkninger. Enten hadde han lagd en bok som kun kunne tolkes slik at folk kunne velge å oppføre seg godt eller så er gud en entitet som elsker vold,blod, massemord og barnebruder....

[Kafir]

Helt enig, men det vil alltid være non som skal mistolke til deres eget beste, ikke vet jeg. Koranen snakker ikke om steining, plutselig er det en del av islam, dette kommer vel av gammle tradisjoner, blandet med kultur osv, slik at det har blitt en ekkel salat.

 

La oss se om dette er ennda et løgnaktig forsøk på å hvitvaske islam og Muhammed:

 

 

Narrated Jabir:

 

A man from the tribe of Aslam came to the Prophet and confessed that he had committed an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet turned his face away from him till the man bore witness against himself four times. The Prophet said to him, "Are you mad?" He said "No." He said, "Are you married?" He said, "Yes." Then the Prophet ordered that he be stoned to death, and he was stoned to death at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but he was caught and was stoned till he died. The Prophet spoke well of him and offered his funeral prayer.

 

 

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

 

A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.

 

Pluttselig er det en del av Islam?

Tenk selv!

 

 

 

Eksempelets makt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah

Endret 25. juni 2010 av Kafir

[flammekaster]

 

Spør du meg så handler det nok om selvfornektelse. Samfunnet og kulturen er bygd opp rundt begrepet mann & kvinne, det er derfor det som regel tar litt tid og at det blir litt vanskelig å innse og ta inn over seg at man er homofil. De fleste homofile har nok vært  igjennom heterofile forhold, men etterhvert så går det opp for dem at de har en annen legning og at de ikke får gjort noe med det. 

 

Kan hende det, men da åpner man jo muligheten for at man kan "velge" hvilket kjønn man foretrekker, påvirket eller upåvirket av kultur; det kan godt hende at mange mennesker "egentlig" har en helt bestemt legning, men det er likevel tydelig at mange "egentlige" homofile også fint kan tenne på mennesker fra det andre kjønn. Jeg synes bare det er litt bombastisk å si at alle mennesker er født med en helt uforanderlig legning.

 

 

[Baranladion]

Spør du meg så handler det nok om selvfornektelse. Samfunnet og kulturen er bygd opp rundt begrepet mann & kvinne, det er derfor det som regel tar litt tid og at det blir litt vanskelig å innse og ta inn over seg at man er homofil. De fleste homofile har nok vært igjennom heterofile forhold, men etterhvert så går det opp for dem at de har en annen legning og at de ikke får gjort noe med det.

 

Kan hende det, men da åpner man jo muligheten for at man kan "velge" hvilket kjønn man foretrekker, påvirket eller upåvirket av kultur; det kan godt hende at mange mennesker "egentlig" har en helt bestemt legning, men det er likevel tydelig at mange "egentlige" homofile også fint kan tenne på mennesker fra det andre kjønn. Jeg synes bare det er litt bombastisk å si at alle mennesker er født med en helt uforanderlig legning.

 

Det finnes folk som liker begge kjønn også, da kalles man bifil. Jeg skal selvfølgelig ikke bastant si at man blir født som det og det, men jeg finner det meget vanskelig å tro at man kan bestemme hvilken legning man vil ha, fordi "kulturen" kan påvirke deg. Da ville vi ikke hatt homofili i alle verdens hjørner og blant andre forskjellige dyr.

 

Edit: Det er en egen tråd for akkurat dette, så jeg tror vi stopper OT`nå.

Endret 25. juni 2010 av McHalvorsen

[Red Frostraven]

Homofili er veldig upraktisk når det kommer til darwinisme. Kanskje det er derfor dette var tabu? Hvorfor mate de som ikke kan føre sine gener videre? Pedofili vil ihvertfall føre arven vidre. Dette er kun ett objektivt syn på det og ikke mitt standpunkt.

Pedofili vil ikke føre noen arv videre, da pedofili er seksuell tiltrekning til barn som er prepubertale (Under 12)

 

HEBEfili, derimot, kan føre slekten videre, da det betyr at er seksuelt tiltrukket av kjønnsmodne barn (over 12, under 16).

 

Edit... Takk til Bozzeye

Endret 26. juni 2010 av Red Frostraven

[Bozzeye]

Hebefili var det nok du tenkte på. Endret 25. juni 2010 av Bozzeye

[PrettyBoy]

Helt enig, men det vil alltid være non som skal mistolke til deres eget beste, ikke vet jeg. Koranen snakker ikke om steining, plutselig er det en del av islam, dette kommer vel av gammle tradisjoner, blandet med kultur osv, slik at det har blitt en ekkel salat.

 

La oss se om dette er ennda et løgnaktig forsøk på å hvitvaske islam og Muhammed:

 

 

Narrated Jabir:

 

A man from the tribe of Aslam came to the Prophet and confessed that he had committed an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet turned his face away from him till the man bore witness against himself four times. The Prophet said to him, "Are you mad?" He said "No." He said, "Are you married?" He said, "Yes." Then the Prophet ordered that he be stoned to death, and he was stoned to death at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but he was caught and was stoned till he died. The Prophet spoke well of him and offered his funeral prayer.

 

 

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

 

A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.

 

Pluttselig er det en del av Islam?

Tenk selv!

 

 

 

Eksempelets makt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah

Etter å lest litt mer på nettsiden du la ut her, fant jeg denne merkelig hadith`en.

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

 

A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death.

 

Den viser at profeten (SAAW) bedømte uten å høre på vitner eller de tiltalte.

 

Den viser også at profeten sendte bare "noen" til en dame og steinet henne, så enkelt var det!!! Og om de steinet en annen dame, hadde det kanskje vært like greit!

 

Slike hadith tror jeg rett og slett ikke på. Uansett hvor de er rapportert.

 

De fleste samlingene av ahadith er ordnet tematisk. Innenfor sunniislam regner man med seks klassiske hadith-samlinger. Høyest vurderes de to eldste samlingene: Sahih Bukhari, etter Muhammad ibn ismail al-Bukhari (ca 810-870), og Sahih Muslim, etter Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj (ca 821-875). Disse to inneholder henholdsvis 7275 og 9200 ahadith. Andre viktige samlinger er etter Abu Dawud (død 888), al-Tirmidhi (død 892), al-Nasai (død 915) og Ibn Majah (død 887).

[Kafir]

Du har aldeles rett i at dette er en hårreisende historie, og det faktum at du er sjokkert over at det står noe slikt om din profet viser meg at du er langt fra noen indoktrinert gærning. Likevel vil jeg fortelle deg at hadithen du siterer finnes i Sahih Bukhari, og er således inkludert i islams mest troverdige hadith.

 

Jeg forstår godt at du ikke vil tro på denne hadith, men er det riktig å ikke undersøke? Tenk om det stemmer det som står, og så forsvarer du islam i god vilje og tro, men forsvarer egentlig noe så grusomt uten å vite det?

 

Min anbefaling til deg er å spørre din imam om denne hadith og be om en forklaring.

 

 

Edit:

Dette er forøvrig en god mulighet til å verifisere om usc.edu kilden er god, da dette ville vært et godt eksempel på forfalskning - dersom siden ikke var nøytral, ikke sant? Kontroller med dine egne islamske kilder og se om du finner den samme hadith med samme innhold. Svar gjerne her så vi får vite svaret.

Endret 28. juni 2010 av Kafir

[Kafir]

PrettyBoy, nå er det en hel arbeidsuke siden du oppdaget den tvilsomme hadith der Muhammed dømmer en kvinne til døden uten å høre på vitner eller tiltalte. Har du snakket med imamen din eller andre muslimer om dette? Ikke ta dette som et personangrep. Jeg er oppriktig interessert i hva lærde muslimer vil si om dette.

[Kafir]

Har steining noe med i slam å gjøre - det har spørsmålet blitt.

Vel, på bakgrunn av det som står i spoileren så vil jeg si *kremt* litt ja.

 

 

 

Stoning in Islam According to Hadith Sahih

 

Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar :

 

The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."

 

Volume 3, Book 34, Number 421:

Narrated 'Aisha:

 

Sad bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abu bin Zam'a quarreled over a boy. Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This boy is the son of my brother ('Utba bin Abi Waqqas) who took a promise from me that I would take him as he was his (illegal) son. Look at him and see whom he resembles." 'Abu bin Zam'a said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother and was born on my father's bed from his slave-girl." Allah's Apostle cast a look at the boy and found definite resemblance to 'Utba and then said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abu bin Zam'a. The child goes to the owner of the bed and the adulterer gets nothing but the stones (despair, i.e. to be stoned to death). Then the Prophet said, "O Sauda bint Zama! Screen yourself from this boy." So, Sauda never saw him again.

 

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

 

A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death.

 

Volume 3, Book 50, Number 885:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

 

A bedouin came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's apostle! I ask you by Allah to judge My case according to Allah's Laws." His opponent, who was more learned than he, said, "Yes, judge between us according to Allah's Laws, and allow me to speak." Allah's Apostle said, "Speak." He (i .e. the bedouin or the other man) said, "My son was working as a laborer for this (man) and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that it was obligatory that my son should be stoned to death, so in lieu of that I ransomed my son by paying one hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious scholars about it, and they informed me that my son must be lashed one hundred lashes, and be exiled for one year, and the wife of this (man) must be stoned to death." Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to be returned to you, your son is to receive a hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. You, Unais, go to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses her guilt, stone her to death." Unais went to that woman next morning and she confessed. Allah's Apostle ordered that she be stoned to death.

 

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 829:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

 

The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and told him that a man and a woman from amongst them had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah's Apostle said to them, "What do you find in the Torah (old Testament) about the legal punishment of Ar-Rajm (stoning)?" They replied, (But) we announce their crime and lash them." Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie; Torah contains the order of Rajm." They brought and opened the Torah and one of them solaced his hand on the Verse of Rajm and read the verses preceding and following it. Abdullah bin Salam said to him, "Lift your hand." When he lifted his hand, the Verse of Rajm was written there. They said, "Muhammad has told the truth; the Torah has the Verse of Rajm. The Prophet then gave the order that both of them should be stoned to death. ('Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to shelter her from the stones."

 

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 79:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar:

 

The Jews brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from among them who had committed illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet said to them, "How do you usually punish the one amongst you who has committed illegal sexual intercourse?" They replied, "We blacken their faces with coal and beat them," He said, "Don't you find the order of Ar-Rajm (i.e. stoning to death) in the Torah?" They replied, "We do not find anything in it." 'Abdullah bin Salam (after hearing this conversation) said to them. "You have told a lie! Bring here the Torah and recite it if you are truthful." (So the Jews brought the Torah). And the religious teacher who was teaching it to them, put his hand over the Verse of Ar-Rajm and started reading what was written above and below the place hidden with his hand, but he did not read the Verse of Ar-Rajm. 'Abdullah bin Salam removed his (i.e. the teacher's) hand from the Verse of Ar-Rajm and said, "What is this?" So when the Jews saw that Verse, they said, "This is the Verse of Ar-Rajm." So the Prophet ordered the two adulterers to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the place where biers used to be placed near the Mosque. I saw her companion (i.e. the adulterer) bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones.

 

Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195:

Narrated Jabir:

 

A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to the Prophet while he was in the mosque and said, "I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face to the other side. The man turned towards the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and gave four witnesses against himself. On that the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" (He added), "Are you married?" The man said, 'Yes." On that the Prophet ordered him to be stoned to the death in the Musalla (a praying place). When the stones hit him with their sharp edges and he fled, but he was caught at Al-Harra and then killed

 

Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

 

A man from Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque and called (the Prophet ) saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." On that the Prophet turned his face from him to the other side, whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and repeated his statement. The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side again. The man moved again (and repeated his statement) for the fourth time. So when the man had given witness four times against himself, the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" He replied, "No." The Prophet then said (to his companions), "Go and stone him to death." The man was a married one. Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari said: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the Musalla ('Id praying place) in Medina. When the stones hit him with their sharp edges, he fled, but we caught him at Al-Harra and stoned him till he died.

 

 

Volume 7, Book 63, Number 230:

Narrated Al-Qasim bin Muhammad:

 

Ibn 'Abbas; said, "Once Lian was mentioned before the Prophet whereupon 'Asim bin Adi said something and went away. Then a man from his tribe came to him, complaining that he had found a man width his wife. 'Asim said, 'I have not been put to task except for my statement (about Lian).' 'Asim took the man to the Prophet and the man told him of the state in which he had found his wife. The man was pale, thin, and of lank hair, while the other man whom he claimed he had seen with his wife, was brown, fat and had much flesh on his calves. The Prophet invoked, saying, 'O Allah! Reveal the truth.' So that lady delivered a child resembling the man whom her husband had mentioned he had found her with. The Prophet then made them carry out Lian." Then a man from that gathering asked Ibn 'Abbas, "Was she the same lady regarding which the Prophet had said, 'If I were to stone to death someone without witness, I would have stoned this lady'?" Ibn 'Abbas said, "No, that was another lady who, though being a Muslim, used to arouse suspicion by her outright misbehavior. "

 

 

Volume 8, Book 78, Number 629:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:

 

Two men had a dispute in the presence of Allah's Apostle. One of them said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The other who was wiser, said, "Yes, O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws and allow me to speak. The Prophet said, "Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer serving this (person) and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, The people said that my son is to be stoned to death, but I ransomed him with one-hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the learned people, who informed me that my son should receive one hundred lashes and will be exiled for one year, and stoning will be the lot for the man's wife." Allah's Apostle said, "Indeed, by Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws: As for your sheep and slave girl, they are to be returned to you." Then he scourged his son one hundred lashes and exiled him for one year. Then Unais Al-Aslami was ordered to go to the wife of the second man, and if she confessed (the crime), then stone her to death. She did confess, so he stoned her to death.

 

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 803:

Narrated Ash-Sha'bi:

 

from 'Ali when the latter stoned a lady to death on a Friday. 'Ali said, "I have stoned her according to the tradition of Allah's Apostle."

 

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 805:

Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah Al-Ansari:

 

A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle and Informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and bore witness four times against himself. Allah's Apostle ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married Person.

 

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 806:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

 

A man came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque, and he called him, saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse.'" The Prophet turned his face to the other side, but that man repeated his statement four times, and after he bore witness against himself four times, the Prophet called him, saying, "Are you mad?" The man said, "No." The Prophet said, "Are you married?" The man said, "Yes." Then the Prophet said, 'Take him away and stone him to death." Jabir bin 'Abdullah said: I was among the ones who participated in stoning him and we stoned him at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but we over took him at Al-Harra and stoned him to death.

 

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 809:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

 

A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.

 

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 810:

Narrated Jabir:

 

A man from the tribe of Aslam came to the Prophet and confessed that he had committed an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet turned his face away from him till the man bore witness against himself four times. The Prophet said to him, "Are you mad?" He said "No." He said, "Are you married?" He said, "Yes." Then the Prophet ordered that he be stoned to death, and he was stoned to death at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but he was caught and was stoned till he died. The Prophet spoke well of him and offered his funeral prayer.

 

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 813:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

 

When Ma'iz bin Malik came to the Prophet (in order to confess), the Prophet said to him, "Probably you have only kissed (the lady), or winked, or looked at her?" He said, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said, using no euphemism, "Did you have sexual intercourse with her?" The narrator added: At that, (i.e. after his confession) the Prophet ordered that he be stoned (to death).

 

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 842:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

 

A man came to the Prophet and said, "I beseech you to judge us according to Allah's Laws." Then his opponent who was wiser than he, got up and said, "He has spoken the truth. So judge us according to Allah's Laws and please allow me (to speak), O Allah's Apostle." The Prophet said, "Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer for the family of this man and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and I gave one-hundred sheep and a slave as a ransom (for my son), but I asked the religious learned people (regarding this case), and they informed me that my son should be flogged one-hundred stripes, and be exiled for one year, and the wife of this man should be stoned (to death)."The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will Judge you (in this case) according to Allah's Laws. The one-hundred (sheep) and the slave shall be returned to you and your son shall be flogged one-hundred stripes and be exiled for one year. And O Unais! Go in the morning to the wife of this man and ask her, and if she confesses, stone her to death." She confessed and he stoned her to death.

 

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 303:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

 

A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Book (Laws)." His opponent stood up and said, "He has said the truth, so judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer for this man and committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people said to me, 'Your son is to be stoned to death,' so I ransomed my son for one hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious learned men and they said to me, 'Your son has to receive one hundred lashes plus one year of exile.' " The Prophet said, "I shall judge between you according to Allah's Book (Laws)! As for the slave girl and the sheep, it shall be returned to you, and your son shall receive one-hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. O you, Unais!" The Prophet addressed some man, "Go in the morning to the wife of this man and stone her to death." So Unais went to her the next morning and stoned her to death.

 

Volume 9, Book 92, Number 432:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

 

The Jews brought a man and a woman who had committed illegal sexual intercourse, to the Prophet and the Prophet ordered them to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the mosque where the biers used to be placed.

 

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 633:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

 

A Jew and Jewess were brought to the Prophet on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked the Jews, "What do you (usually) do with them?" They said, "We blacken their faces and disgrace them." He said, "Bring here the Torah and recite it, if you are truthful." They (fetched it and) came and asked a one-eyed man to recite. He went on reciting till he reached a portion on which he put his hand. The Prophet said, "Lift up your hand!" He lifted his hand up and behold, there appeared the verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning of the adulterers to death). Then he said, "O Muhammad! They should be stoned to death but we conceal this Divine Law among ourselves." Then the Prophet ordered that the two sinners be stoned to death and, and they were stoned to death, and I saw the man protecting the woman from the stones. (See Hadith No. 809, Vol. 8)

 

from Sahih Muslim

 

Book 017, Number 4191:

'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.

 

Book 017, Number 4194:

'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.

 

Book 017, Number 4196:

Abu Huraira reported that a person from amongst the Muslims came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) while he was in the mosque. He called him saying: Allah's Messenger. I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away from him, He (again) came round facing him and said to him: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away until he did that four times, and as he testified four times against his own self, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called him and said: Are you mad? He said: No. He (again) said: Are you married? He said: Yes. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Take him and stone him. Ibn Shihab (one of the narrators) said: One who had heard Jabir b. 'Abdullah saying this informed me thus: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the place of prayer (either that of 'Id or a funeral). When the stones hurt him, he ran away. We caught him in the Harra and stoned him (to death). This hadith has been narrated through another chain of transmitters.

 

Book 017, Number 4198:

Jabir b. Samura reported: As he was being brought to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) I saw Ma'iz b. Malik-a short-statured person with strong sinews, having no cloak around him. He bore witness against his own self four times that he had committed adultery, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Perhaps (you kissed her or embraced her). He said: No. by God, one deviating (from the path of virtue) has committed adultery. He then got him stoned (to death), and then delivered the address: Behold, as we set out for Jihad in the cause of Allah, one of you lagged behind and shrieked like the bleating of a male goat, and gave a small quantity of milk. By Allah, in case I get hold of him, I shall certainly punish him.

 

Book 017, Number 4199:

Jabir b. Samura reported that there was brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) a short-statured person with thick uncombed hair, muscular body, having a mantle around him and he had committed adultery. He turned him away twice and then made pronouncement about him and he was stoned. Then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: We set out for Jihad in the cause of Allah and one of you lagged behind and shrieked like the bleating of a male goat and one of then (goats' gave a small quantity of milk. In case Allah gives me power over one of them, I will punish him (in such a way that it may have a deterrent effect upon others). In another narration transmitted on the authority of Sa'id b Jubair (the words are), that He (the Holy Prophet) turned him away four times."

 

Book 017, Number 4201:

Ibn Abbas reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to Ma'iz b. Malik: Is it true what has reached me about you? He said: What has reached you about me? He said: It has reached me that you have committed (adultery) with the slave-girl of so and so? He said: Yes. He (the narrator) said: He testified four times. He (the Holy Prophet) then made pronouncement about him and he was stoned (to death).

 

Book 017, Number 4202:

Abu Sa'id reported that a person belonging to the clan of Aslam, who was called Ma, iz b. Malik, came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: I have committed immorality (adultery), so inflict punishment upon me. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) turned him away again and again. He then asked his people (about the state of his mind). They said: We do not know of any ailment of his except that he has committed something about which he thinks that he would not be able to relieve himself of its burden but with the Hadd being imposed upon him. He (Ma'iz) came back to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and he commanded us to stone him. We took him to the Baqi' al-Gharqad (the graveyard of Medina). We neither tied him nor dug any ditch for him. We attacked him with bones, with clods and pebbles. He ran away and we ran after him until he came upon the ston ground (al-Harra) and stopped there and we stoned him with heavy stones of the Harra until he became motionless (lie died). He (the Holy Prophet) then addressed (us) in the evening saying Whenever we set forth on an expedition in the cause of Allah, some one of those connected with us shrieked (under the pressure of sexual lust) as the bleating of a male goat. It is essential that if a person having committed such a deed is brought to me, I should punish him. He neither begged forgiveness for him nor cursed him.

 

Book 017, Number 4205:

Sulaiman b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma, iz b. Malik came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said to him: Messenger of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: Woe be upon you, go back, ask forgiveness of Allah and turn to Him in repentance. He (the narrator) said that he went back not far, then came and said: Allah's Messenger, purify me. whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Woe be upon you, go back and ask forgiveness of Allah and turn to Him in repentance. He (the narrator) said that he went back not far, when he came and said: Allah's Messenger, purify me. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said as he had said before. When it was the fourth time, Allah's Messenger (may, peace be upon him) said: From what am I to purify you? He said: From adultery, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) asked if he had been mad. He was informed that he was not mad. He said: Has he drunk wine? A person stood up and smelt his breath but noticed no smell of wine. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Have you committed adultery? He said: Yes. He made pronouncement about him and he was stoned to death. The people had been (divided) into two groups about him (Ma'iz). One of them said: He has been undone for his sins had encompassed him, whereas another said: There is no repentance more excellent than the repentance of Ma'iz, for he came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and placing his hand in his (in the Holy Prophet's) hand said: Kill me with stones. (This controversy about Ma'iz) remained for two or three days. Then came Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to them (his Companions) as they were sitting. He greeted them with salutation and then sat down and said: Ask forgiveness for Ma'iz b. Malik. They said: May Allah forgive Ma'iz b. Malik. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He (Ma'iz) has made such a repentance that if that were to be divided among a people, it would have been enough for all of them. He (the narrator) said: Then a woman of Ghamid, a branch of Azd, came to him and said: Messenger of of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: Woe be upon you; go back and beg forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance. She said: I find that you intend to send me back as you sent back Ma'iz. b. Malik. He (the Holy, Prophet) said: What has happened to you? She said that she had become pregnant as a result of fornication. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Is it you (who has done that)? She said: Yes. He (the Holy Prophet) said to her: (You will not be punished) until you deliver what is there in your womb. One of the Ansar became responsible for her until she was delivered (of the child). He (that Ansari) came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said the woman of Ghamid has given birth to a child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: In that case we shall not stone her and so leave her infant with none to suckle him. One of the Ansar got up and said: Allah's Apostle, let the responsibility of his suckling be upon me. She was then stoned to death.

 

Book 017, Number 4206:

'Abdullah b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma'iz b. Malik al-Aslami came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, I have wronged myself; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. He turned him away. On the following day, he (Ma'iz) again came to him and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) turned him away for the second time, and sent him to his people saying: Do you know if there is anything wrong with his mind. They denied of any such thing in him and said: We do not know him but as a wise good man among us, so far as we can judge. He (Ma'iz) came for the third time, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent him as he had done before. He asked about him and they informed him that there was nothing wrong with him or with his mind. When it was the fourth time, a ditch was dug for him and he (the Holy Prophet) pronounced judg- ment about him and he wis stoned. He (the narrator) said: There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried.

 

Book 017, Number 4207:

Imran b. Husain reported that a woman from Juhaina came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and she had become pregnant because of adultery. She said: Allah's Apostle, I have done something for which (prescribed punishment) must be imposed upon me, so impose that. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) called her master and said: Treat her well, and when she delivers bring her to me. He did accordingly. Then Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about her and her clothes were tied around her and then he commanded and she was stoned to death. He then prayed over her (dead body). Thereupon Umar said to him: Allah's Apostle, you offer prayer for her, whereas she had committed adultery! Thereupon he said: She has made such a repentance that if it were to be divided among seventy men of Medina, it would be enough. Have you found any repentance better than this that she sacr ficed her life for Allah, the Majestic?

 

Book 017, Number 4209:

Abu Huraira and Zaid b Khalid al-Juhani reported that one of the desert tribes came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I beg of you in the name of Allah that you pronounce judgment about me according to the Book of Allah. The second claimant who was wiser than him said: Well, decide amongst us according to the Book of Allah, but permit me (to say something). Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon ham) said: Say. He said: My son was a servant in the house of this person and he committed adultery with his wife. I was informed that my son deserved stoning to death (as punishment for this offence). I gave one hundred goats and a slave girl as ransom for this. I asked the scholars (if this could serve as an expiation for this offence). They informed me that my son deserved one hundred lathes and exile for one year. and this woman deserved stoning (as she was married). Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him) said: By Him in Whose Hand is my life. I will decide between you according to the Book of Allah. The slave-girl and the goats should be given back, and your son is to be punished with one hundred lashes and exile for one year. And, O Unais (b. Zuhaq al-Aslami), go to this woman in the morning, and if she makes a confession, then stone her. He (the narrator) said: He went to her in the morning and she made a confession. And Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made pronouncement about her and she was stoned to death.

 

Book 017, Number 4211:

Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that a Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) who had committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to the Jews and said: What do you find in Torah for one who commits adultery? They said: We darken their faces and make them ride on the donkey with their faces turned to the opposite direction (and their backs touching each other), and then they are taken round (the city). He said: Bring Torah if you are truthful. They brought it and recited it until when they came to the verse pertaining to stoning, the person who was reading placed his hand on the verse pertaining to stoning, and read (only that which was) between his hands and what was subsequent to that. Abdullah b. Salim who was at that time with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Command him (the reciter) to lift his hand. He lifted it and there was, underneath that, the verse pertaining to stoning. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about both of them and they were stoned. Abdullah b. 'Umar said: I was one of those who stoned them, and I saw him (the Jew) protecting her (the Jewess) with his body.

 

Book 017, Number 4212:

Ibn Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stoned to death the Jews, both male and female, who had committed adultery. The Jews brought them to Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him). The rest of the hadith is the same.

 

Book 017, Number 4216:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) stoned (to death) a person from Banu Aslam, and a Jew and his wife.

 

Book 020, Number 4483:

It has been narrated on the authority of Amir b. Sa'd b. Abu Waqqas who said: I wrote (a letter) to Jabir b. Samura and sent it to him through my servant Nafi', asking him to inform me of something he had heard from the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He wrote to me (in reply): I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say on Friday evening, the day on which al-Aslami was stoned to death (for committing adultery): The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by twelve Caliphs, all of them being from the Quraish. also heard him say: A small force of the Muslims will capture the white palace, the police of the Persian Emperor or his descendants. I also heard him say: Before the Day of Judgment there will appear (a number of) impostors. You are to guard against them. I also heard him say: When God grants wealth to any one of you, he should first spend it on himself and his family (and then give it in charity to the poor). I heard him (also) say: I will be your forerunner at the Cistern (expecting your arrival).

 

[Kafir]

Dette var en merkelig fatwa.

Bekreftes det her at folket fra Loot ble steinet, og sies det også at en homofil kan tilgis og kan gifte seg?

 

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/5177

[Kafir]

Hvorfor ble det så stille i denne tråden?

Traff jeg et ømt punkt med den ahadithen?

Jeg er fortsatt svært interessert i å høre om PrettyBoy har konsultert en imam og bedt om en forklaring på hvordan Muhammed kunne dømme en kvinne til døden ved steining uten å ha hørt hennes vitneforklaring.

[Dr. Professor]

Hvorfor ble det så stille i denne tråden?

Traff jeg et ømt punkt med den ahadithen?

Jeg er fortsatt svært interessert i å høre om PrettyBoy har konsultert en imam og bedt om en forklaring på hvordan Muhammed kunne dømme en kvinne til døden ved steining uten å ha hørt hennes vitneforklaring.

 

Du finner dritt i alle religiøse bøker, særlig de som er skrevet ned for en god stund siden, så enkelt er det.

 

add-on:

 

Zachariah 13:3:

"If anyone continues to prophesy, his own father and mother will tell him, 'You must die, for you have prophesied lies in the name of the LORD.' And as he prophesies, his own father and mother will stab him."

 

Leviticus 20:13:

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

 

Deuteronomy 22:28-29:

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

 

Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

 

Så har vi i tillegg 'an eye for an eye' og en rekke andre hårreisende historier fra Bibelen. Guess it's just not Islam then..

Endret 13. juli 2010 av Dr. Professor

[RWS]

Så har vi i tillegg 'an eye for an eye' og en rekke andre hårreisende historier fra Bibelen. Guess it's just not Islam then..

Hva hadde du forventet egentlig, i og med at store deler av islam er rip off fra nettopp den kristne og den jødiske tro? Muslimene tror jo at de har den siste og eneste riktige fortellingen av de tre abrahamiske religionene... De har brukt en masse fra bibelen i sine verk pluss alle de tilbøyelighetene denne profeten de setter så høyt hadde.. Syntes den godeste profeten ligner veldig på Joseph Smith, grunnleggeren av den mormonske tro, som blandet inn sin egen trang til å ha sex med flere koner samtidig i sin egen bibel der han tillot flerkoneri... Problemet til begge disse "profetene" er at de gjenfoteller gjenfortellinger og myter, men klarer å sette sitt særpreg på det ved å tillegge "troen" de har konstruert sine egne små tilbøyligheter og avvik....

 

Synd at folk skal tro på noe slikt spør du meg og på toppen av det være villig til å drepe andre hvis de sier i mot! Forkastelig!

 

Så nei, islam har jeg ikke rare forventninger til skal jeg være helt ærlig... Det kommer ikke til å komme noe godt ut av den religionen, det er helt sikkert, men det kommer jo ikke noe godt ut av noen religioner når de blir så totalitære som islam er, det er faktisk ikke så lange siden kristendommen var likedan, til sammenligning.

[Dr. Professor]

*snip*

 

Jeg har ingen forventninger til Islam, men kom med en motvekt mot kafir sine håpløse argumenter om at siden det står dritt i Koranan, så er muslimer automatisk onde. Noe det virker som han absolutt mener.

Endret 14. juli 2010 av Dr. Professor