Alinoe Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Etter straffeloven 1902 § 142 («blasfemiparagrafen»), er det straffbart i ord eller handling offentlig å forhåne eller på en krenkende eller sårende måte å vise ringeakt for «nogen trosbekjennelse hvis utøvelse her i riket er tillatt eller noget lovlig her bestående religionssamfunds troslærdommer eller gudsdyrkelse».Du får klage til regjeringen siden det står i norske lover at det er straffbart Du skal følge norsk lov, men kun så lenge norsk lov ikke er til unødvendig hinder. Og det vel du selv som bestemmer hva dette hinderet er?Latterlig skjerp deg, nå har jeg dokumentert på at blasfemi er straffbart, nok om den saken Rettssystemet er mer enn bare lovtekst. §142 må benyttes sett i sammenheng med grunnloven §100, som tross alt er lex superior. Arnulf Øverland-saken er i så måte interessant. Dessuten, som jeg sa, er den paragrafen vedtatt opphevet. Lenke til kommentar
PrettyBoy Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Et sted må jo dette komme fra så hvis det ikke er koranen må det være de bakstreberske imamene deres da som driver å klorer ned dette i hadithene sine? Hvor kommer dette fra da? Hvor kommer steining av utro kvinner fra fx?Se Alinoe sitt innlegg:Godt spørsmål. Muligens fra bibelen, som nevner steining en million ganger. Koranen nevner det ikke en eneste gang.Steining var en vanlig straffemetode før og i Jesus sin tid Etter straffeloven 1902 § 142 («blasfemiparagrafen»), er det straffbart i ord eller handling offentlig å forhåne eller på en krenkende eller sårende måte å vise ringeakt for «nogen trosbekjennelse hvis utøvelse her i riket er tillatt eller noget lovlig her bestående religionssamfunds troslærdommer eller gudsdyrkelse».Du får klage til regjeringen siden det står i norske lover at det er straffbart Du skal følge norsk lov, men kun så lenge norsk lov ikke er til unødvendig hinder. Og det vel du selv som bestemmer hva dette hinderet er?Latterlig skjerp deg, nå har jeg dokumentert på at blasfemi er straffbart, nok om den saken Rettssystemet er mer enn bare lovtekst. §142 må benyttes sett i sammenheng med grunnloven §100, som tross alt er lex superior. Arnulf Øverland-saken er i så måte interessant. Dessuten, som jeg sa, er den paragrafen vedtatt opphevet. Kan du dokumentere på at den er opphevet?Og når ble den opphevet? Lenke til kommentar
Alinoe Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Den er ikke opphevet, den er foreslått opphevet i en Ot.prop, av en regjering som har flertall. Du husker kanskje styret rundt foreslått endring i strl. §135a for noen måneder siden. http://www.nored.no/news.aspx?id=4524 Om den er opphevet eller ikke er i og for seg ikke så veldig relevant, igjen pga veiingen mot grl §100, som nevnt over. Lenke til kommentar
PrettyBoy Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Ja du sier selv den er ikke opphevet, da er vi ferdige med den saken Lenke til kommentar
Erman Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Etter samtale med et yngre kvinnelig familiemedlem anno igår, har jeg noe relevant å komme med i debatten. På Elvebakken skole er det blitt opprettet et eget bønnerom for elever primært i 3. klasse. Det er ikke blitt forklart nærmere hvordan rommet brukes i praksis, men viser at hvis man bitcher høyt og lenge, så får man det som man vil. Uten å kjenne til lovverket i særlig stor grad, kan jeg påstå at noe slikt ikke kan hjemles i noen lov, eller rett til å utøve ens religion. Lenke til kommentar
PrettyBoy Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Dette vet jeg ingenting om, men de har nok søkt og det har gått igjennom? Lenke til kommentar
RWS Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Vet... Har hørt om flere steder der egne bønnerom er opprettet for muslingene, som truer og hyler rasist hvis noen skulle nekte og får det som de vil ... Trist å se hvordan en religion brøyter seg frem på bekostning av andre... JEG hadde ikke tillatt det på skolen til mine sønner, det kunne de bare glemme... Kvalmt er dette syntes jeg, men muslimene fikk det som de ville etter de tegningene, der de tydelig viste at de ikke går av veien for hverken trussler eller vold for å få det som de vil selv om dette går i mot mange andre.... Voldens religion er vel bedre å kalle islam, enda det ikke står en dritt om dette i boka deres er det jo dette de lærer og holder på med.... tilsynelatende over alt i verden.... Trist. Men vold og trussler kan også møtes med vold og trussler hvis ikke annet hjelper.... Ikke av meg såklart, jeg er en fredelig ateist jeg Lenke til kommentar
analkløe Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 (endret) Ja du sier selv den er ikke opphevet, da er vi ferdige med den saken Opphevet eller ikke, det er en sovende paragraf Sovende paragraf brukes om lover og forskrifter som ikke brukes i praksis, som regel fordi de ble vedtatt i en tid da moralen var en annen. I Norge har lov av 31. mai 1900 nr. 5 om «Løsgjængeri, Betleri og Drukkenskab» vært et vanlig eksempel på en lov som i stor grad har inneholdt sovende bestemmelser. Med unntak av § 11 om tigging ble den opphevet med virkning fra 1. januar 2006. I forbindelse med Muhammed-karikaturene i 2006 oppstod en debatt om en annen sovende bestemmelse, forbudet mot blasfemi i straffelovens § 142. Enkelte motstandere av publiseringen av karikaturene ønsket at bestemmelsen ble «vekket til live» igjen. Den siste som ble dømt for blasfemi i Norge var Arnfred Olsen som skrev «De 'kristne' hedninger mindes sin Jesus, den jødiske religionsmaker, som tilsidst holdt dem saa grundig for nar» i bladet Fritenkeren i 1912, han fikk 10 kroner i bot. I senere tid har det vært vist til blasfemiparagrafen da Statens filmtilsyn stoppet «Life of Brian» i 1980. På begynnelsen av 1990-tallet forsøkte muslimer i Norge å stanse den norske utgivelsen av Salman Rushdies bok Sataniske vers. I både Danmark og Norge ble det levert anmeldelser for blasfemi i forbindelse med trykking av Muhammed-karikaturene i 2006, uten at dette førte til tiltale. Det norske Hedningesamfunnet har ved en rekke anledninger forsøkt å bli tiltalt for blasfemi, men uten å lykkes. Så igjen. Dette er en sovende paragraf som ikke straffeforfølges...uansett hvor hardt en prøver. Så lenge dette er en sovende paragraf, er det fullt lovlig med blasfemi i Norge. Og om man pluttselig finner på å aktivisere denne sovende paragrafen og bruke den for å stoppe black metal, kunst og andre forefallende yttringer har det vell ikke annen betydning enn at "gudehus" over Norges langstrakte land blir lagt i grus og aske. EDIT: Ikke bland sammen rase og religion PrettyBoy. Det er også etniske Nordmenn som har konvertert fra kristendum til islam. Askenazi-jøder kaller andre nazister så snart de krittiseres for overgrep og folkemord på bla. muslimer. Så hold deg for god til slikt tull. Endret 6. mai 2009 av analkløe Lenke til kommentar
Alinoe Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Ja du sier selv den er ikke opphevet, da er vi ferdige med den saken Forstod du det jeg skrev om at rettssystemet består av mer enn ordlyden i en enkelt paragraf? Lenke til kommentar
Baltazar94 Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Har sagt flere ganger, steining er ingen del av Koranen,. Steinng er foreskrevet i islamsk lov, sharia. Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar : The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque." Volume 3, Book 34, Number 421: Narrated 'Aisha: Sad bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abu bin Zam'a quarreled over a boy. Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This boy is the son of my brother ('Utba bin Abi Waqqas) who took a promise from me that I would take him as he was his (illegal) son. Look at him and see whom he resembles." 'Abu bin Zam'a said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother and was born on my father's bed from his slave-girl." Allah's Apostle cast a look at the boy and found definite resemblance to 'Utba and then said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abu bin Zam'a. The child goes to the owner of the bed and the adulterer gets nothing but the stones (despair, i.e. to be stoned to death). Then the Prophet said, "O Sauda bint Zama! Screen yourself from this boy." So, Sauda never saw him again. Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860: Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani: A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death. Volume 3, Book 50, Number 885: Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani: A bedouin came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's apostle! I ask you by Allah to judge My case according to Allah's Laws." His opponent, who was more learned than he, said, "Yes, judge between us according to Allah's Laws, and allow me to speak." Allah's Apostle said, "Speak." He (i .e. the bedouin or the other man) said, "My son was working as a laborer for this (man) and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that it was obligatory that my son should be stoned to death, so in lieu of that I ransomed my son by paying one hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious scholars about it, and they informed me that my son must be lashed one hundred lashes, and be exiled for one year, and the wife of this (man) must be stoned to death." Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to be returned to you, your son is to receive a hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. You, Unais, go to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses her guilt, stone her to death." Unais went to that woman next morning and she confessed. Allah's Apostle ordered that she be stoned to death. Volume 4, Book 56, Number 829: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and told him that a man and a woman from amongst them had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah's Apostle said to them, "What do you find in the Torah (old Testament) about the legal punishment of Ar-Rajm (stoning)?" They replied, (But) we announce their crime and lash them." Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie; Torah contains the order of Rajm." They brought and opened the Torah and one of them solaced his hand on the Verse of Rajm and read the verses preceding and following it. Abdullah bin Salam said to him, "Lift your hand." When he lifted his hand, the Verse of Rajm was written there. They said, "Muhammad has told the truth; the Torah has the Verse of Rajm. The Prophet then gave the order that both of them should be stoned to death. ('Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to shelter her from the stones." Volume 6, Book 60, Number 79: Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar: The Jews brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from among them who had committed illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet said to them, "How do you usually punish the one amongst you who has committed illegal sexual intercourse?" They replied, "We blacken their faces with coal and beat them," He said, "Don't you find the order of Ar-Rajm (i.e. stoning to death) in the Torah?" They replied, "We do not find anything in it." 'Abdullah bin Salam (after hearing this conversation) said to them. "You have told a lie! Bring here the Torah and recite it if you are truthful." (So the Jews brought the Torah). And the religious teacher who was teaching it to them, put his hand over the Verse of Ar-Rajm and started reading what was written above and below the place hidden with his hand, but he did not read the Verse of Ar-Rajm. 'Abdullah bin Salam removed his (i.e. the teacher's) hand from the Verse of Ar-Rajm and said, "What is this?" So when the Jews saw that Verse, they said, "This is the Verse of Ar-Rajm." So the Prophet ordered the two adulterers to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the place where biers used to be placed near the Mosque. I saw her companion (i.e. the adulterer) bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones. Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195: Narrated Jabir: A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to the Prophet while he was in the mosque and said, "I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face to the other side. The man turned towards the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and gave four witnesses against himself. On that the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" (He added), "Are you married?" The man said, 'Yes." On that the Prophet ordered him to be stoned to the death in the Musalla (a praying place). When the stones hit him with their sharp edges and he fled, but he was caught at Al-Harra and then killed Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196: Narrated Abu Huraira: A man from Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque and called (the Prophet ) saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." On that the Prophet turned his face from him to the other side, whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and repeated his statement. The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side again. The man moved again (and repeated his statement) for the fourth time. So when the man had given witness four times against himself, the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" He replied, "No." The Prophet then said (to his companions), "Go and stone him to death." The man was a married one. Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari said: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the Musalla ('Id praying place) in Medina. When the stones hit him with their sharp edges, he fled, but we caught him at Al-Harra and stoned him till he died. Volume 7, Book 63, Number 230: Narrated Al-Qasim bin Muhammad: Ibn 'Abbas; said, "Once Lian was mentioned before the Prophet whereupon 'Asim bin Adi said something and went away. Then a man from his tribe came to him, complaining that he had found a man width his wife. 'Asim said, 'I have not been put to task except for my statement (about Lian).' 'Asim took the man to the Prophet and the man told him of the state in which he had found his wife. The man was pale, thin, and of lank hair, while the other man whom he claimed he had seen with his wife, was brown, fat and had much flesh on his calves. The Prophet invoked, saying, 'O Allah! Reveal the truth.' So that lady delivered a child resembling the man whom her husband had mentioned he had found her with. The Prophet then made them carry out Lian." Then a man from that gathering asked Ibn 'Abbas, "Was she the same lady regarding which the Prophet had said, 'If I were to stone to death someone without witness, I would have stoned this lady'?" Ibn 'Abbas said, "No, that was another lady who, though being a Muslim, used to arouse suspicion by her outright misbehavior. " Volume 8, Book 78, Number 629: Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid: Two men had a dispute in the presence of Allah's Apostle. One of them said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The other who was wiser, said, "Yes, O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws and allow me to speak. The Prophet said, "Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer serving this (person) and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, The people said that my son is to be stoned to death, but I ransomed him with one-hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the learned people, who informed me that my son should receive one hundred lashes and will be exiled for one year, and stoning will be the lot for the man's wife." Allah's Apostle said, "Indeed, by Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws: As for your sheep and slave girl, they are to be returned to you." Then he scourged his son one hundred lashes and exiled him for one year. Then Unais Al-Aslami was ordered to go to the wife of the second man, and if she confessed (the crime), then stone her to death. She did confess, so he stoned her to death. Volume 8, Book 82, Number 803: Narrated Ash-Sha'bi: from 'Ali when the latter stoned a lady to death on a Friday. 'Ali said, "I have stoned her according to the tradition of Allah's Apostle." Volume 8, Book 82, Number 805: Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah Al-Ansari: A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle and Informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and bore witness four times against himself. Allah's Apostle ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married Person. Volume 8, Book 82, Number 806: Narrated Abu Huraira: A man came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque, and he called him, saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse.'" The Prophet turned his face to the other side, but that man repeated his statement four times, and after he bore witness against himself four times, the Prophet called him, saying, "Are you mad?" The man said, "No." The Prophet said, "Are you married?" The man said, "Yes." Then the Prophet said, 'Take him away and stone him to death." Jabir bin 'Abdullah said: I was among the ones who participated in stoning him and we stoned him at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but we over took him at Al-Harra and stoned him to death. Volume 8, Book 82, Number 809: Narrated Ibn 'Umar: A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess. Volume 8, Book 82, Number 810: Narrated Jabir: A man from the tribe of Aslam came to the Prophet and confessed that he had committed an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet turned his face away from him till the man bore witness against himself four times. The Prophet said to him, "Are you mad?" He said "No." He said, "Are you married?" He said, "Yes." Then the Prophet ordered that he be stoned to death, and he was stoned to death at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but he was caught and was stoned till he died. The Prophet spoke well of him and offered his funeral prayer. Volume 8, Book 82, Number 813: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: When Ma'iz bin Malik came to the Prophet (in order to confess), the Prophet said to him, "Probably you have only kissed (the lady), or winked, or looked at her?" He said, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said, using no euphemism, "Did you have sexual intercourse with her?" The narrator added: At that, (i.e. after his confession) the Prophet ordered that he be stoned (to death). Volume 8, Book 82, Number 842: Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani: A man came to the Prophet and said, "I beseech you to judge us according to Allah's Laws." Then his opponent who was wiser than he, got up and said, "He has spoken the truth. So judge us according to Allah's Laws and please allow me (to speak), O Allah's Apostle." The Prophet said, "Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer for the family of this man and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and I gave one-hundred sheep and a slave as a ransom (for my son), but I asked the religious learned people (regarding this case), and they informed me that my son should be flogged one-hundred stripes, and be exiled for one year, and the wife of this man should be stoned (to death)."The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will Judge you (in this case) according to Allah's Laws. The one-hundred (sheep) and the slave shall be returned to you and your son shall be flogged one-hundred stripes and be exiled for one year. And O Unais! Go in the morning to the wife of this man and ask her, and if she confesses, stone her to death." She confessed and he stoned her to death. Volume 9, Book 89, Number 303: Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani: A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Book (Laws)." His opponent stood up and said, "He has said the truth, so judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer for this man and committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people said to me, 'Your son is to be stoned to death,' so I ransomed my son for one hundred sheep and a slave girl. Then I asked the religious learned men and they said to me, 'Your son has to receive one hundred lashes plus one year of exile.' " The Prophet said, "I shall judge between you according to Allah's Book (Laws)! As for the slave girl and the sheep, it shall be returned to you, and your son shall receive one-hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. O you, Unais!" The Prophet addressed some man, "Go in the morning to the wife of this man and stone her to death." So Unais went to her the next morning and stoned her to death. Volume 9, Book 92, Number 432: Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Jews brought a man and a woman who had committed illegal sexual intercourse, to the Prophet and the Prophet ordered them to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the mosque where the biers used to be placed. Volume 9, Book 93, Number 633: Narrated Ibn 'Umar: A Jew and Jewess were brought to the Prophet on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked the Jews, "What do you (usually) do with them?" They said, "We blacken their faces and disgrace them." He said, "Bring here the Torah and recite it, if you are truthful." They (fetched it and) came and asked a one-eyed man to recite. He went on reciting till he reached a portion on which he put his hand. The Prophet said, "Lift up your hand!" He lifted his hand up and behold, there appeared the verse of Ar-Rajm (stoning of the adulterers to death). Then he said, "O Muhammad! They should be stoned to death but we conceal this Divine Law among ourselves." Then the Prophet ordered that the two sinners be stoned to death and, and they were stoned to death, and I saw the man protecting the woman from the stones. (See Hadith No. 809, Vol. 8) from Sahih Muslim Book 017, Number 4191: 'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death. Book 017, Number 4194: 'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession. Book 017, Number 4196: Abu Huraira reported that a person from amongst the Muslims came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) while he was in the mosque. He called him saying: Allah's Messenger. I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away from him, He (again) came round facing him and said to him: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away until he did that four times, and as he testified four times against his own self, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called him and said: Are you mad? He said: No. He (again) said: Are you married? He said: Yes. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Take him and stone him. Ibn Shihab (one of the narrators) said: One who had heard Jabir b. 'Abdullah saying this informed me thus: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the place of prayer (either that of 'Id or a funeral). When the stones hurt him, he ran away. We caught him in the Harra and stoned him (to death). This hadith has been narrated through another chain of transmitters. Book 017, Number 4198: Jabir b. Samura reported: As he was being brought to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) I saw Ma'iz b. Malik-a short-statured person with strong sinews, having no cloak around him. He bore witness against his own self four times that he had committed adultery, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Perhaps (you kissed her or embraced her). He said: No. by God, one deviating (from the path of virtue) has committed adultery. He then got him stoned (to death), and then delivered the address: Behold, as we set out for Jihad in the cause of Allah, one of you lagged behind and shrieked like the bleating of a male goat, and gave a small quantity of milk. By Allah, in case I get hold of him, I shall certainly punish him. Book 017, Number 4199: Jabir b. Samura reported that there was brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) a short-statured person with thick uncombed hair, muscular body, having a mantle around him and he had committed adultery. He turned him away twice and then made pronouncement about him and he was stoned. Then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: We set out for Jihad in the cause of Allah and one of you lagged behind and shrieked like the bleating of a male goat and one of then (goats' gave a small quantity of milk. In case Allah gives me power over one of them, I will punish him (in such a way that it may have a deterrent effect upon others). In another narration transmitted on the authority of Sa'id b Jubair (the words are), that He (the Holy Prophet) turned him away four times." Book 017, Number 4201: Ibn Abbas reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to Ma'iz b. Malik: Is it true what has reached me about you? He said: What has reached you about me? He said: It has reached me that you have committed (adultery) with the slave-girl of so and so? He said: Yes. He (the narrator) said: He testified four times. He (the Holy Prophet) then made pronouncement about him and he was stoned (to death). Book 017, Number 4202: Abu Sa'id reported that a person belonging to the clan of Aslam, who was called Ma, iz b. Malik, came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: I have committed immorality (adultery), so inflict punishment upon me. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) turned him away again and again. He then asked his people (about the state of his mind). They said: We do not know of any ailment of his except that he has committed something about which he thinks that he would not be able to relieve himself of its burden but with the Hadd being imposed upon him. He (Ma'iz) came back to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and he commanded us to stone him. We took him to the Baqi' al-Gharqad (the graveyard of Medina). We neither tied him nor dug any ditch for him. We attacked him with bones, with clods and pebbles. He ran away and we ran after him until he came upon the ston ground (al-Harra) and stopped there and we stoned him with heavy stones of the Harra until he became motionless (lie died). He (the Holy Prophet) then addressed (us) in the evening saying Whenever we set forth on an expedition in the cause of Allah, some one of those connected with us shrieked (under the pressure of sexual lust) as the bleating of a male goat. It is essential that if a person having committed such a deed is brought to me, I should punish him. He neither begged forgiveness for him nor cursed him. Book 017, Number 4205: Sulaiman b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma, iz b. Malik came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said to him: Messenger of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: Woe be upon you, go back, ask forgiveness of Allah and turn to Him in repentance. He (the narrator) said that he went back not far, then came and said: Allah's Messenger, purify me. whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Woe be upon you, go back and ask forgiveness of Allah and turn to Him in repentance. He (the narrator) said that he went back not far, when he came and said: Allah's Messenger, purify me. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said as he had said before. When it was the fourth time, Allah's Messenger (may, peace be upon him) said: From what am I to purify you? He said: From adultery, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) asked if he had been mad. He was informed that he was not mad. He said: Has he drunk wine? A person stood up and smelt his breath but noticed no smell of wine. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Have you committed adultery? He said: Yes. He made pronouncement about him and he was stoned to death. The people had been (divided) into two groups about him (Ma'iz). One of them said: He has been undone for his sins had encompassed him, whereas another said: There is no repentance more excellent than the repentance of Ma'iz, for he came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and placing his hand in his (in the Holy Prophet's) hand said: Kill me with stones. (This controversy about Ma'iz) remained for two or three days. Then came Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to them (his Companions) as they were sitting. He greeted them with salutation and then sat down and said: Ask forgiveness for Ma'iz b. Malik. They said: May Allah forgive Ma'iz b. Malik. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He (Ma'iz) has made such a repentance that if that were to be divided among a people, it would have been enough for all of them. He (the narrator) said: Then a woman of Ghamid, a branch of Azd, came to him and said: Messenger of of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: Woe be upon you; go back and beg forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance. She said: I find that you intend to send me back as you sent back Ma'iz. b. Malik. He (the Holy, Prophet) said: What has happened to you? She said that she had become pregnant as a result of fornication. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Is it you (who has done that)? She said: Yes. He (the Holy Prophet) said to her: (You will not be punished) until you deliver what is there in your womb. One of the Ansar became responsible for her until she was delivered (of the child). He (that Ansari) came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said the woman of Ghamid has given birth to a child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: In that case we shall not stone her and so leave her infant with none to suckle him. One of the Ansar got up and said: Allah's Apostle, let the responsibility of his suckling be upon me. She was then stoned to death. Book 017, Number 4206: 'Abdullah b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma'iz b. Malik al-Aslami came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, I have wronged myself; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. He turned him away. On the following day, he (Ma'iz) again came to him and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) turned him away for the second time, and sent him to his people saying: Do you know if there is anything wrong with his mind. They denied of any such thing in him and said: We do not know him but as a wise good man among us, so far as we can judge. He (Ma'iz) came for the third time, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent him as he had done before. He asked about him and they informed him that there was nothing wrong with him or with his mind. When it was the fourth time, a ditch was dug for him and he (the Holy Prophet) pronounced judg- ment about him and he wis stoned. He (the narrator) said: There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried. Book 017, Number 4207: Imran b. Husain reported that a woman from Juhaina came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and she had become pregnant because of adultery. She said: Allah's Apostle, I have done something for which (prescribed punishment) must be imposed upon me, so impose that. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) called her master and said: Treat her well, and when she delivers bring her to me. He did accordingly. Then Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about her and her clothes were tied around her and then he commanded and she was stoned to death. He then prayed over her (dead body). Thereupon Umar said to him: Allah's Apostle, you offer prayer for her, whereas she had committed adultery! Thereupon he said: She has made such a repentance that if it were to be divided among seventy men of Medina, it would be enough. Have you found any repentance better than this that she sacr ficed her life for Allah, the Majestic? Book 017, Number 4209: Abu Huraira and Zaid b Khalid al-Juhani reported that one of the desert tribes came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I beg of you in the name of Allah that you pronounce judgment about me according to the Book of Allah. The second claimant who was wiser than him said: Well, decide amongst us according to the Book of Allah, but permit me (to say something). Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon ham) said: Say. He said: My son was a servant in the house of this person and he committed adultery with his wife. I was informed that my son deserved stoning to death (as punishment for this offence). I gave one hundred goats and a slave girl as ransom for this. I asked the scholars (if this could serve as an expiation for this offence). They informed me that my son deserved one hundred lathes and exile for one year. and this woman deserved stoning (as she was married). Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him) said: By Him in Whose Hand is my life. I will decide between you according to the Book of Allah. The slave-girl and the goats should be given back, and your son is to be punished with one hundred lashes and exile for one year. And, O Unais (b. Zuhaq al-Aslami), go to this woman in the morning, and if she makes a confession, then stone her. He (the narrator) said: He went to her in the morning and she made a confession. And Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made pronouncement about her and she was stoned to death. Book 017, Number 4211: Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that a Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) who had committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to the Jews and said: What do you find in Torah for one who commits adultery? They said: We darken their faces and make them ride on the donkey with their faces turned to the opposite direction (and their backs touching each other), and then they are taken round (the city). He said: Bring Torah if you are truthful. They brought it and recited it until when they came to the verse pertaining to stoning, the person who was reading placed his hand on the verse pertaining to stoning, and read (only that which was) between his hands and what was subsequent to that. Abdullah b. Salim who was at that time with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Command him (the reciter) to lift his hand. He lifted it and there was, underneath that, the verse pertaining to stoning. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about both of them and they were stoned. Abdullah b. 'Umar said: I was one of those who stoned them, and I saw him (the Jew) protecting her (the Jewess) with his body. Book 017, Number 4212: Ibn Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stoned to death the Jews, both male and female, who had committed adultery. The Jews brought them to Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him). The rest of the hadith is the same. Book 017, Number 4216: Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) stoned (to death) a person from Banu Aslam, and a Jew and his wife. Book 020, Number 4483: It has been narrated on the authority of Amir b. Sa'd b. Abu Waqqas who said: I wrote (a letter) to Jabir b. Samura and sent it to him through my servant Nafi', asking him to inform me of something he had heard from the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He wrote to me (in reply): I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say on Friday evening, the day on which al-Aslami was stoned to death (for committing adultery): The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by twelve Caliphs, all of them being from the Quraish. also heard him say: A small force of the Muslims will capture the white palace, the police of the Persian Emperor or his descendants. I also heard him say: Before the Day of Judgment there will appear (a number of) impostors. You are to guard against them. I also heard him say: When God grants wealth to any one of you, he should first spend it on himself and his family (and then give it in charity to the poor). I heard him (also) say: I will be your forerunner at the Cistern (expecting your arrival). Lenke til kommentar
Baltazar94 Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 (endret) Det med 72jomfruer står det ingenting i Koranen om, det bare noen komikere som har funnet opp, 72 joumfruer, eller houris som det heter. Er noe muslimske martyrer blir lovet hvis de dreper allahs fiender( ikke-muslimer) Og bla. selvmordsbombere blir lovet å gå direkte til paradis, og få 72 jomfruer, eller houris som er spesielt vakre, og skapt av allah kun for denne oppgaven. Mulig du ikke har hørt om det ennå, men det kommer nok. Nå er det jo slik at islams ledere har vedtatt at europa stort sett skal erobres på "fredelig" vis, så det er muligens derfor du ikke har hørt om det ennå. http://www.muslimhope.com/HourisHeavenlyMaidensInIslam.htm Endret 6. mai 2009 av Baltazar94 Lenke til kommentar
GrandMa Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 6. mai 2009 Det med 72jomfruer står det ingenting i Koranen om, det bare noen komikere som har funnet opp, 72 joumfruer, eller houris som det heter. Er noe muslimske martyrer blir lovet hvis de dreper allahs fiender( ikke-muslimer) Og bla. selvmordsbombere blir lovet å gå direkte til paradis, og få 72 jomfruer, eller houris som er spesielt vakre, og skapt av allah kun for denne oppgaven. Mulig du ikke har hørt om det ennå, men det kommer nok. Nå er det jo slik at islams ledere har vedtatt at europa stort sett skal erobres på "fredelig" vis, så det er muligens derfor du ikke har hørt om det ennå. http://www.muslimhope.com/HourisHeavenlyMaidensInIslam.htm The concept of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Imam at-Tirmidhi in his "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687) and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Qur'an 55:72, it is stated that: "It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard the Prophet Muhammad saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.[64] [edit] Interpretations Margaret Nydell states that mainstream Muslims regard this belief about 72 virgins in the same way that mainstream Christians regard the belief that after death they will be issued with wings and a harp, and walk on clouds.[65] Another interpretation of the relevant passages of the Qur'an is The Syro-Aramaic Reading Of The Qur'an written by Christoph Luxenberg. In respect of this particular point, Luxenberg argues that the relevant passage actually translates to a portrayal of paradise as a lush garden with pooling water and trees with rare fruit, including white raisins (considered to be delicacies at the time that the Qur'an was written), not virgin maidens.[66][67] [edit] Criticism Regarding the above statement, Hafiz Salahuddin Yusuf has said: "The narration, which claims that everyone would have seventy-two wives has a weak chain of narrators." [46] Also agreed by many others, this chain of narrations has been noted to be extremely weak, or Da'eef and was by Tirmidhi, who has been noted for having quite a few unauthentic or fabricated hadith, not to say it was his fault but that of the relaters. Lenke til kommentar
tom waits for alice Skrevet 7. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 7. mai 2009 Vet... Har hørt om flere steder der egne bønnerom er opprettet for muslingene,... Jeg er ikke overbevist om at bruk av uttrykk som "muslinger" hjelper på den saklige debatt. Og den er jeg som kjent glad i. Nå ønsker vi ikke å sensurere mer enn nødvendig, og vil derfor ikke forby slike uttrykk, så lenge de ikke brukes om person. Huskeregel: Personangrep er forbudt på forumet, grupper har ikke samme vern. Inidivider kan bare i begrenset grad påberope seg vern på gruppens vegne. Dog gjelder rasismeparagrafen og forumets regler om samme. Men en vennlig henstilling tillater jeg meg allikevel. Provokasjoner bør ha en hensikt utover å provosere. Bruk dem med fornuft. Ellers blir det fort for trolling å regne. Og det er forbudt. Reaksjoner tas på PM, ikke i tråden. Geir Lenke til kommentar
Erman Skrevet 7. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 7. mai 2009 Dette vet jeg ingenting om, men de har nok søkt og det har gått igjennom? Vel, det har jo tydeligvis gått gjennom. Spørsmålet er hvorvidt det er nødvendig eller ikke. Lenke til kommentar
PrettyBoy Skrevet 8. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 8. mai 2009 Dette vet jeg ingenting om, men de har nok søkt og det har gått igjennom? Vel, det har jo tydeligvis gått gjennom. Spørsmålet er hvorvidt det er nødvendig eller ikke. Siden det har gått gjennom så mener vel ledelsen at det er nødvendig,. 72 joumfruer, eller houris som det heter. Er noe muslimske martyrer blir lovet hvis de dreper allahs fiender( ikke-muslimer) Og bla. selvmordsbombere blir lovet å gå direkte til paradis, og få 72 jomfruer, eller houris som er spesielt vakre, og skapt av allah kun for denne oppgaven.Mulig du ikke har hørt om det ennå, men det kommer nok. Så lenge det ikke står i Koranen om 72 jomfruer ,så velger jeg å ikke tro på det,. Lenke til kommentar
RWS Skrevet 8. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 8. mai 2009 Så lenge det ikke står i Koranen om 72 jomfruer ,så velger jeg å ikke tro på det,. He he... Nei, det er en fin unnskyldning for alt det muslimer gjør i allas navn når det det ikke står i koranen... Men hvor har de dette fra da? De bruker jo "i allahs navn" på omtrent alt de gjør så enten er dette bare en villfarelse hos majoriteten av muslimer ellers er dette funnet på av imamers egne hadither, som en måte å styre "saueflokken" sin på? Eller har de rett ogs slett grepet dette ut av løse lufta, det er derfor straffene i de fleste muslimske land er så barbariske? De er kanskje rett og slett ikke ekte muslimer, som deg? Eller er de det, men er ført på ville veier av imamene deres, som ved flere anledninger har vst at de ikke er HELT oppegående i moderne samfunn...? Føler at du VET hvorfor men er flau/hemmelighetsfull over dette jeg.... For det KOMMER av noe at de gjør som de gjør og selv om dette ikke står i koranen så har de dette fra et sted. Hvor? Hvorfor gjelder dette stort sett muslimer liksom.... Og hvis det hadde vært som du hevder at koranen er så fredfull og harmløs, hvorfor er majoriteten av muslimer klin gærne da? Det er jo som å se inn i middelalderen noen ganger jo når en ser disse gale menneskene hyle på allahs hevn over ditt og datt som de syntes er feil i mot islam.... merkelig, når islam skal være så "fredfull"... Så hvordan forklarer du, Prettyboy, oppførselen til dine med islamister? Hvorfor går de helt av skaftet for å forsvare guden din? Eller er de ikke ekte muslimer...? Eller er rett og slett den muslimske kulturen blitt det totalte barbari? Kan nemlig virke slik noen ganger! Lenke til kommentar
PrettyBoy Skrevet 8. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 8. mai 2009 (endret) Nei, det er en fin unnskyldning for alt det muslimer gjør i allas navn når det det ikke står i koranen... Kan du utdype deg? Men hvor har de dette fra da? De bruker jo "i allahs navn" på omtrent alt Som hva da f.eks? Eller har de rett ogs slett grepet dette ut av løse lufta, det er derfor straffene i de fleste muslimske land er så barbariske? Strenge straffer som steining tenker du på? Føler at du VET hvorfor men er flau/hemmelighetsfull over dette jeg.... For det KOMMER av noe at de gjør som de gjør og selv om dette ikke står i koranen så har de dette fra et sted. Hvor? Hvorfor gjelder dette stort sett muslimer liksom.... Det jeg vet forteller jeg, er ikke flau i det hele tatt om det Koranen forteller,.Støtter Koranen 100% Folk kan finne på å gjøre ting uten at det står noen sted,.Det gjelder alle, ikke bare muslimer,. Og hvis det hadde vært som du hevder at koranen er så fredfull og harmløs, hvorfor er majoriteten av muslimer klin gærne da? Det her er din mening,. Så hvordan forklarer du, Prettyboy, oppførselen til dine med islamister? Hvorfor går de helt av skaftet for å forsvare guden din? Eller er de ikke ekte muslimer...? Hvorfor skal jeg forsvare folk sine handlinger eller forklare, eneste jeg er her for er å forsvare hva Koranen sier,. Jeg forventer ikke av deg at du skal forklare når en ateist dreper, stjeler, voldtar, brenner osv, så skjønte ikke helt hvorfor du skulle forvente det av meg? Er du ikke litt barnslig nå? Hvem som er en ekte muslim er opp til Gud å avgjøre ikke meg Endret 8. mai 2009 av PrettyBoy Lenke til kommentar
RWS Skrevet 8. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 8. mai 2009 (endret) At majoriteten av muslimer er klin gærne er min mening ja... Du ser ikke noe slikt for eksempel i Oslo når noe går galt, for her gjør ikke vanlige folk slikt. Det jeg vil frem til er: Islam blir hevdet å være en fredens religion og jeg lurer på hvorfor tillates det, ja ofte oppfordres det, til steining og andre grusomheter for noe som er bagateller for andre men som i "allahs" navn blir dratt ut til det rett og slett grusomste? Hvor kommer barbariet i den muslimske kulturen fra? For den musliske kulturen er mye tettere sammenvevd med islam i muslimske land enn vi er med kristendommen for eksempel her i landet og et sted må jo dette barbariet ha begynt? Eller har det alltid vært slik? Med steininger, hengninger og pisking for tilsynelatende bagateller og andre latterlige "synder"? Hvorfor ser vi ikke dette i en kristen stat, ala USA? (De har riktig nok dødsstraffer de også, men det foregår allikevel litt mer humant enn den sinnsyke straffingen som foregår i de fleste muslimske land? Tror ikke du får omvendt en kjeft til islam når det faktisk er dette som ER islams ansikt utad for mange... Sinnsvake sharia lover som er bygget på idiotiske dogmatiske doktriner... Nope, ikke noe for meg! Foretrekker at folk får leve fritt jeg... Og det forundrer meg at noen imamer er frekke nok til å stå å hevde at de vil ha sharia lover her i den vestelige verden når det i hovedsak er dette de fleste flykter fra(i hvertfall tilsynelatende... Nå har vi jo sett enn del tilfeller av islamske "homoseksuelle" som skal ha kone og barn opp hit så fort de er innviglet opphold... og andre "morsomme" saker, så noen vil jo alltid SI at de er ettersøkt der de kommer fra uten å være det....) Noen tanker har du vel gjort deg om dette selv om du kanskje ikke vil svare på det? Endret 8. mai 2009 av RWS Lenke til kommentar
PrettyBoy Skrevet 8. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 8. mai 2009 (endret) At majoriteten av muslimer er klin gærne er min mening ja... Du ser ikke noe slikt for eksempel i Oslo når noe går galt, for her gjør ikke vanlige folk slikt. er ikke helt sikker på du hva mener her? Finnes jo muslimer som bor i Oslo? Islam blir hevdet å være en fredens religion og jeg lurer på hvorfor tillates det, ja ofte oppfordres det, til steining og andre grusomheter for noe som er bagateller for andre men som i "allahs" navn blir dratt ut til det rett og slett grusomste? Hvor kommer barbariet i den muslimske kulturen fra? For den musliske kulturen er mye tettere sammenvevd med islam i muslimske land enn vi er med kristendommen for eksempel her i landet og et sted må jo dette barbariet ha begynt? Eller har det alltid vært slik? Med steininger, hengninger og pisking for tilsynelatende bagateller og andre latterlige "synder"? Det er langt ifra at land som Iran følger sharia-lover. Det er stort sett misbruk av enkelte sharialover. iran som blir styrt av shia-muslimer etter min mening har blandet inn sufisme, Zoroastrismen og helt sikker gammel persisk kultur slik at det har blitt en ekkel salat, jeg kan ikke dokmunetere dette, dette er bare basert på mine egne meninger bare.. F.eks er det betingelser for alle lover i sharia. Man kan kun straffe zina (samleie utenfor ekteskapet) dersom vedkommende som har begått zina har FIRE vitner som faktisk har sett det. Hvem har FIRE vitner når de har samleie men noen? Så i praksis er det vanskelig å implementre disse straffene i sharialovene med dødsstraff, piskeslag ved zina, amputering ved tyveri etc. Men disse forutsetningene overses i stor grad i Iran og Saudi Arabia. Man kan derfor ikke si at de følger sharialovene til punkt og prikke når betingelsene for straffbare handlinger ikke er tilstede i mange tilfeller. Iran Og Saudi Arabia missbruker Islam for makt. Det er påfallende hvordan ledere i arabiske land får forsyninger av dyr Whisky for sine private fester i sine palass. Samtidig handhever de både Allahs ord og Hadither som passer dem. Dette gjør meg bare trist, men jeg vet at Koranen og Islam er så mye mer enn dette. Tror ikke du får omvendt en kjeft til islam når det faktisk er dette som ER islams ansikt utad for mange...De som konverter til islam, de er de som faktisk finner islams ansitk utad,.Hverdag er det mennesker som konverter til Islam, vet ikke hvor mye men har hørt/lest at det er store tall Bare kjapt noen forskjeller fra hadith og Koranen,. Hadith: - Frafall fra islam - Dødsstraff (jordisk straff, Sahih Bukhari 9;83:17, 9;84:58, 9;89:271) - Zina - straffes med steining (Dette forutsetter at "gjerningspersonene" er gift ifølge ulema. Eks Ma’iz ibn Malik og Al-Ghamidiyah- hendelsene. Sahih Bukhari 6;60:79, 8;82:805 og 8;82:829, "Ape-hendelsen" og Sahih Muslim 3436 og 4215.) Alkohol-drikking - straffes med 40 piskeslag (husker ikke hvor dette er nevnt) - Blodpenger (Diyya): Det finnes en hel bok beregnet for dette her i Sahih Bukhari samlingen. Ad-Diyat (Bok nummer 83) Koranen: - Zina - straffes med 100 piskeslag, Dette forutsetter at "gjerningspersonene" er ugift. K 24:2 - og 4 vitner. - Mord (K: 5:32, 2:178, 5:45 og 25:68-69) - Qisas (Et øye for et øye....) - Frafall fra Islam - Ikke-jordisk straff (K 5:54, 3:72, 3:90, 16:106 og 4:137) - Tyveri - Kryssamputasjon (K 5:38) Krever vitner husker ikke helt om det var 2 eller 4. - Ulydighet mot lederen (K 5:33) i en nasjon hvor sharia er rådende er tolket enkelte ganger å være det samme som å erklære krig mot Allah(swt) og profeten - Straffes med en av følgende straff: Korsfestet Kryssamputasjon Landsforvising Dette verset (K 5:33) blir også brukt når det kommer til landveisrøveri også som er sett på å være "mischief"/ å spre uro i et land jamfør 2:11-12. - Alkohol-drikking ulovlig/haram - men ingen straff nevnt (K 50:90-91) Endret 8. mai 2009 av PrettyBoy Lenke til kommentar
Baltazar94 Skrevet 8. mai 2009 Del Skrevet 8. mai 2009 .Støtter Koranen 100% Dette betyr jo at du også støtter 100 % alle oppfordringer om hat, vold og drap på ikke-muslimer, og selv om du ikke følger disse oppfordringene selv, så støtter du altså de som gjør det. Vel, det var jo en nyttig opplysning, for nå kan du ikke lenger regne med å bli trodd om du sier at du ikkke følger de voldelige delene av koranen. Lenke til kommentar
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