Snikpellik

Jeg har fulgt tråden tråden tett. Ingen aktive her har gitt uttrykk for å støtte Hamas, eller krigsforbrytelsene og terroren de har utført. Det Rhabagatz poengterer over er retten palestinerne, og også Hamas, har til motstandskamp. Som innebærer angrep mot militære mål, innenfor reglene for krigføring. Dette betyr jo ikke at man støtter Hamas. De har åpenbart ikke rett til å begå krigsforbrytelser, terror, kidnappinger og de andre forbrytelsene de gjør - noe som også delegitimerer organisasjonen i sin helhet. Eksperter: Palestinerne har rett til å yte væpnet motstand https://www.forsvaretsforum.no/israel-palestina-utenriks/eksperter-palestinerne-har-rett-til-a-yte-vaepnet-motstand/208191 Palestinerne er i sin fulle rett til å angripe militære israelske mål, både i Israel og på den okkuperte Vestbredden, slår folkerettseksperter fast.

Det er ingen her som gir uttrykk for å støtte terror og krigsforbrytelser. Slike grove beskyldninger ødelegger bare debatten, og er ikke interessant.

I Nederland har både utenriksminister Veldkamp og fem andre ministre fra høyrepartiet sagt opp etter at det ikke ble enighet om å innføre omfattende sanksjoner mot Israel, og det går nå mot enda en regjeringskrise. De ble dog enige om handelsblokkade av varer fra israelske bosettinger på okkuperte Vestbredden, men Veldkamp som fra før er en kjent Israel-venn mener Nederland burde sette ytterligere press på landet han tidligere var ambassadør til. Han stod uansett ovenfor et mistillitsforslag fra partier som mente han ikke gjorde nok for å presse Israel, et forslag som så ut til å få støtte både fra venstre- og høyrepartier. Dutch foreign minister resigns after failing to secure sanctions against Israel https://apnews.com/article/netherlands-government-veldkamp-dutch-israel-0cb5b9b3c0fab86d39a4202d2231f091 https://www.telegraaf.nl/politiek/nsc-ers-volgen-veldkamp-en-stappen-allemaal-uit-kabinet/85404380.html

Demonstranter, deriblant familiemedlemmer av gisler demonstrerte utenfor Netanyahus hjem igjen går kveld - og blokkerte flere motorveier i Tel Aviv. De krever at Netanyahu godtar forslaget som nå foreligger om løslatelsen av 10 gisler, og en midlertidig våpenhvile. Meningsmålinger viser at en stor majoritet av israelere ønsker dette, men Netanyahu som trues med regjeringskollaps av ytre høyre-fløyen ser ut til å heller ville fortsette offensiven mot Gaza by enn å prioritere gislenes liv. IDF, som var imot offensiven, har advart om at den kan innebære å ofre gislene. Protesters block highways, demonstrate at Netanyahu’s home calling for hostage deal https://www.timesofisrael.com/protesters-block-highways-demonstrate-at-netanyahu-home-calling-for-hostage-deal/ Families stage rally outside PM’s Jerusalem residence, tell him to ‘leave the Shabbat table and move to the negotiating table’; mass protests scheduled for Tuesday. Protesters calling for a hostage deal blocked multiple highways and rallied outside Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Jerusalem residence on Friday evening, as the Hostages and Missing Families Forum announced another day of nationwide hostage protests for Tuesday. The protests come as Israel plans to launch a major offensive to capture Gaza City, a move that the families of the captives say will condemn them to their deaths, and days after Hamas accepted a proposal for a phased hostage-ceasefire deal, which Israel has not officially responded to. In Tel Aviv, protesters blocked traffic in both directions on the Ayalon highway, near the Hashalom interchange. Footage on social media showed the demonstrators unfurling banners reading “Stop until they’re all back” and setting up a table for a Shabbat meal which they later set on fire. Hebrew media quoted the protesters as saying that while Netanyahu “sits at the Shabbat table, hostage families are forced to spend Friday in fear for the fate of their loved ones.” They added that “there is a deal on the table” and demanded that Netanyahu accept it.

Gisselfamiliene planlegger nye store aksjoner førstkommende tirsdag, i protest mot Netanyahus valg om ikke å godta avtalen som ville frigitt 10 gisler mot en midlertidig våpenhvile. De mener Netanyahu ofrer gislene og soldater for egen politisk gevinst. De sier forrige søndags nasjonale streik og demonstrasjoner hvor over 1 million israelere deltok bare er begynnelsen. Hostages’ families announce new nationwide disruption on Tuesday: 'Israel stands together' https://www.ynetnews.com/article/h1rabg8yle#autoplay Hostages’ Families Forum accuses Netanyahu of obstruction, vows another mass protest with nationwide solidarity events, a march, and a rally at Hostages Square, warning last Sunday’s disruption was 'only the beginning'. (…) “We are in the midst of another deliberate obstruction by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu,” the families charged Friday. “Those kidnapped on his watch—who should have been the priority for rescue—were abandoned again, now sacrificed on the altar of political considerations. The government is disconnected from its people and is sacrificing its citizens. But 80% of Israelis stand with the hostages, and only the people will bring them home.” The families stressed that Sunday’s protest was “only the beginning.” They urged the public to join en masse on Tuesday in what they described as a massive civic day of solidarity under the banner “Israel Stands Together.”

Trump hevder færre enn 20 gisler er i live, i strid med Israels tall og til gisselfamilienes fortvilelse. Han hevder også å ha «reddet hundrevis av gisler», selv om det var færre enn 150 gjenværende da han tok over som president. Israel har i kveld slått tilbake mot påstandene. “According to Israel’s information, there is no change in the information you have received from us: 20 of the hostages are alive, there are grave concerns for the lives of two and 28 are no longer alive and are considered slain hostages,” Hirsch said to the families, according to Hebrew media. The reports come after hostage families expressed dismay at Trump’s statement, both for suggesting there were fewer than 20 living hostages and for appearing to disregard the 30 other hostages. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hostages-point-man-said-to-reassure-families-that-20-captives-still-alive-after-trump-suggests-otherwise/

Norge har, i likhet med mange land, ikke en egen terrorliste. Norge mener dog Hamas er en terrororganisasjon, både regjeringen og Stortinget.

Relatives say PM condemning hostages by pushing offensive, ignoring deal on table https://www.timesofisrael.com/relatives-say-pm-condemning-hostages-by-pushing-offensive-ignoring-deal-on-table/ Hostages Forum lashes Netanyahu for refusing to consider offer, despite Hamas’s apparent acceptance of terms he previously okayed, and ‘torpedoing’ chances to save loved ones. (…) With Netanyahu vowing to press ahead with plans to intensify fighting and conquer Gaza City, family members warned that leaving a deal to begin bringing home captives on the table and unanswered would condemn the 20 hostages still thought to be alive.

Dette er vel strengt talt ingen ny nyhet, men at Netanyahu torpederte gissel- og våpenhvileavtaler bekreftes nå av Matthew Miller i intervju med israelsk media. Kilder både i Biden-administrasjonen, den israelske regjeringen og israelske opposisjonen har ytret dette tidligere. Biden official: Netanyahu sabotaged deals but calling him out would’ve helped Hamas https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-official-netanyahu-sabotaged-deals-but-calling-him-out-wouldve-helped-hamas/ Matthew Miller tells Israeli TV show US wanted to declare publicly that Netanyahu was ‘completely intransigent,’ but saw Sinwar pull back from talks when detecting US-Israel strain. The Biden administration on several occasions wanted to publicly declare that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was hampering efforts to secure a Gaza ceasefire and hostage release agreement, but refrained from doing so upon understanding it would lead Hamas to harden its negotiating positions, a former senior US official revealed in an exposé that aired on Thursday. “There were times that we very much wanted to go public and make clear that we thought the prime minister was being completely intransigent and making it tougher to get a deal,” former State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller, who was a close aide to former secretary of state Antony Blinken, told Channel 13’s “Hamakor” (“The Source”) TV program. “But we discussed it amongst ourselves, and we made the decision that it wouldn’t accomplish anything [because] we had seen it in a number of cases, [former Hamas leader Yahya] Sinwar pulled back from negotiations when he thought there was division between the United States and Israel,” Miller continued. “We wanted to speak very toughly to the government of Israel behind closed doors, but ultimately not do anything that we thought would make it harder to get to a deal.” Netanyahu has long been accused by critics within Israel and abroad of dragging out hostage negotiations since the early months of the war. But he has rejected those arguments by noting that US officials have repeatedly said publicly that Hamas was the main obstacle preventing deals from being reached. Miller’s comments to Channel 13 offered some context for why that was the case, and the former Biden official recalled several instances when the US came close to calling out Netanyahu for allegedly torpedoing negotiations.

Det stemmer ikke, IPC har allerede tilbakevist disse beskyldningene. Forklaringen er enkel: IPC denies Israel's accusation it changed famine criteria https://www.bbc.com/news/live/ckgj0yn3dzjt The IPC has rebutted Israel's accusations it cut its normal thresholds for famine for this report. The answer is technical, but it amounts to different ways of assessing malnutrition, external in children under five depending on what evidence is available. The IPC says that a 30% threshold is used when an assessment based on weight and height is conducted, but that this measure is not available in Gaza at the moment. In its absence, a separate measure of the circumference of children's arms is used - which has a threshold declaring famine when 15% of children have arms under a certain size. The IPC says this standard has been the case for over a decade - and has been used recently to assess famine in Sudan. It adds that the use of arm circumference "does not represent a 'lowered threshold' in IPC methodology". "Instead, it demonstrates the continued application of established IPC standards."

Ja, det minner meg om de bitre amerikanerne som gikk imot Bidens sletting av studiegjeld for unge, fordi de selv hadde nedbetalt den for lenge siden. Selv på ting som ikke er negativt for noen skal det klages, fordi det ikke er direkte positivt for dem selv, men for noen andre.

Det er vel ikke i nærheten av det samme i det hele tatt.

Netanyahus siste uttalelser, der han nok en gang går bort fra gisselavtalen som foreligger, tas ikke veldig godt i mot hos familiene til de gjenværende gislene. Mother of Israeli hostage slams Netanyahu: Don't order negotiations, sign a deal https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-08-22/ty-article-live/israeli-strikes-cause-widespread-destruction-and-casualties-in-and-near-gaza-city-un-says/00000198-cfb2-dc9d-abd9-dffef2e20000 Einav Zangauker, mother of hostage Matan Zangauker who is being held in the Gaza Strip, wrote on X, "My son has been in Gaza for 685 days, and just now Netanyahu 'orders' to start negotiations for him. Don't order – sign." Zangauker also called on Netanyahu to "give up on the obstacles you set up for the talks, stop getting whipped by [Finance Minister Bezalel] Smotrich and [National Security Minister Itamar] Ben-Gvir. For once, do the right thing." In her remarks, Zangauker responded to Netanyahu's directive released on Thursday night for an Israeli delegation to start negotiations for a complete hostage deal and an end to the war on Israel's conditions, as he approves the military's plan for taking over Gaza.

Jeg ser ikke helt problemet her. Det er et engangseksperiment, et prøveprosjekt nettopp for å sammenligne to grupper. Dersom det viser seg å fungere godt er det jo en veldig bra ting som trolig fører til at alle i denne aldersgruppen får skattelette. A/B-testing er vel en anerkjent strategi når man skal teste ut nye tiltak. Tipper det blir positive funn av dette eksperimentet, og da blir det ganske vanskelig for de andre partiene å stemme mot. Smart av regjeringen for å få dette skattelettet gjennom for alle unge.

21 countries condemn Israel’s West Bank settlement expansion, UK summons ambassador https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rjyz26vkeg Britain, France, Canada and other Western nations denounce Israel’s E1 settlement plan, warning it undermines a two-state solution and fuels instability; London summons Israel’s ambassador, citing a breach of international law. Twenty-one countries, including Britain and France, condemned Israel on Thursday for approving the E1 settlement plan, describing it as a “death blow” to a future Palestinian state. The nations said the plan “is unacceptable and constitutes a blatant violation of international law.” Shortly after, Britain announced it had summoned Israel’s ambassador, Tzipi Hotovely, over the approval. The joint statement was signed by foreign ministers from Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Britain, as well as the European Union’s High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy and Vice President of the European Commission. According to the statement, “Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said the E1 plan would make a two-state solution impossible by dividing any future Palestinian state and restricting Palestinian access to Jerusalem. This does not benefit the Israeli people but distances us further from peace and risks increasing violence and instability.”

Gantz vurderer å tre inn i Netanyahus regjering dersom det kan sikre flertall for en delvis gisselavtale. Ytre høyre-partiene har truet med å gå ut av regjeringen dersom Israel sier ja til forslaget som nå foreligger, frigivelse av 10 levende gisler og en midlertidig våpenhvile. Det ser uansett ut til at Netanyahu ikke ønsker å inngå noen avtale, etter han i går nok en gang uttalte at det er alt eller ingenting. Gantz’s party signals it may join coalition if PM’s far-right allies bolt over Gaza deal https://www.timesofisrael.com/gantzs-party-signals-it-may-join-coalition-if-pms-far-right-allies-bolt-over-gaza-deal/ Benny Gantz’s centrist Blue and White-National Unity party signaled Thursday it was considering rejoining Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government as a safety net to ensure a hostage deal moves forward, a day after reports suggested it was weighing the option amid some momentum in negotiations. Kan news reported Wednesday that the party could join the coalition if Netanyahu agrees to a ceasefire in Gaza, in the event that the far-right parties of Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir bolt, as they have threatened to do.

Det var på ingen måte ment nedlatende, jeg forsøkte bare å forklare situasjonen ettersom det så ut til at du trodde det han kom med var relevant for mitt innlegg. Da mangler man åpenbart konteksten og oversikt over hvorfor Netanyahus utsagn bare gjør gisselfamiliene mer sinte, og at dette handler om det israelerne ser på som et svik mot de gjenlevende gislene.

Ah, du har ikke fulgt med. Det er nettopp dette familiene protesterer mot, og har gjort lenge. Dette er hele bakgrunnen for de enorme demonstrasjonene i Israel den siste tiden (1 mill i helga) og de stadige gnisningene i regjeringssamarbeidet. At han ikke inngår en delvis våpenhvileavtale som vil frigi gisler nå, men i stedet skal stå på at de skal inngå en full avtale hvor alle gislene frigis samtidig. Alle vet at det er urealistisk, Hamas kommer ikke til å kapitulere og frigi alle gislene. Derfor krangles det i Israel om «partial» eller «full» deal. Gisselfamiliene, folket og opposisjonspartiene vil ha en partial deal, mens de mest ytterliggående i regjeringen vil ha en full deal, og truer med å senke regjeringen dersom Netanyahu går for en partial deal.

? Saken jeg gjenga over er bokstavelig talt nesten øverst på forsiden av Times of Israel nå.

Gisselfamiliene demonstrerer i Tel-Aviv i dag, etter at Netanyahu valgte å ikke si ja til en avtale som ville reddet 10 gisler, men i stedet satt i gang en operasjon som ifølge IDF vil sette livet til alle de gjenlevende gislene i stor fare. Netanyahu beskyldte i helgen gisselfamiliene som demonstrerte da for å «hjelpe Hamas». Hostage families march toward IDF HQ demanding loved ones’ release as PM green lights Gaza City op https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hostage-families-march-toward-idf-hq-demanding-loved-ones-release-as-pm-green-lights-gaza-city-op/ Hostage families and their supporters are currently marching to the IDF’s Kirya headquarters in Tel Aviv calling for the release of their loved ones as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu holds a security consult at the IDF’s Southern Command headquarters in order to approve the army’s plans to take over Gaza City. Hostage families are opposed to the plan, fearing that it will place their loved ones at risk. — Hostage families protest in Tel Aviv for hostage release, at least eight anti-war protesters arrested in Haifa https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-08-21/ty-article-live/idf-says-next-stage-of-operation-to-take-control-of-gaza-city-underway/00000198-ca4d-d1e9-abf9-db7f1bbd0000?liveBlogItemId=1773796646#1773796646 Protesters calling for the release of the hostages demonstrated in Tel Aviv against the government's delay in responding to the proposal made by mediators for a limited hostage deal, which Hamas has responded in favor of. Family members of hostages and supporters are marched around the IDF headquarters in Tel Aviv, as the family of Gali and Ziv Berman, siblings who are being held hostage in the Gaza Strip, marched from Dizengoff Square to Hostage Square simultaneously. Yehuda Cohen, father of Nimrod, who is being held captive in the Gaza Strip, called on Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir and all reservists who have been called up for reserve duty to disobey orders. "Only with force will we be able to pressure Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the benefactor of Hamas, to stop this unnecessary war," he said. Also on Thursday, mothers of soldiers serving in the military protested outside the home of Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir in central Israel, calling for an end to the war. "We will not allow the sacrifice of our children in a politically motivated war. Eyal Zamir is responsible for every soldier who is killed, and the blood of the hostages will be on his hands," they said.

Internasjonale medier er fremdeles utestengt fra Gaza av Israel (!). 27 land ber i et brev om mediene umiddelbart må få tilgang. 27 nations call for ‘immediate’ access to Gaza for foreign media https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/27-nations-call-for-immediate-access-to-gaza-for-foreign-media/ Twenty-seven countries, including Britain, France and Germany, have signed onto a statement calling on Israel to allow “immediate independent foreign media access” into the war-torn Gaza Strip “Journalists and media workers play an essential role in putting the spotlight on the devastating reality of war,” the members of the Media Freedom Coalition say in a joint statement. The signatories are Australia, Austria, Belgium, Chile, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Sierra Leone, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom.

De to israelske avisene som har den opprinnelige saken bruker ordene «militants», «soldiers» og «fighters», så det er nok bare Dagbladet som har oversatt dette ganske direkte derfra. Israelske medier bruker ofte disse ordene om medlemmer av Hamas sitt militære.

Ifølge israelske tall er hele 83% av de drepte på Gazastripen frem til mai i år sivile. Revealed: Israeli military’s own data indicates civilian death rate of 83% in Gaza war https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war Figures from a classified Israeli military intelligence database indicate five out of six Palestinians killed by Israeli forces in Gaza have been civilians, an extreme rate of slaughter rarely matched in recent decades of warfare. As of May, 19 months into the war, Israeli intelligence officials listed 8,900 named fighters from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad as dead or “probably dead”, a joint investigation by the Guardian, the Israeli-Palestinian publication +972 Magazine and the Hebrew-language outlet Local Call has found. At that time 53,000 Palestinians had been killed by Israeli attacks, according to health authorities in Gaza, a toll that included combatants and civilians. Fighters named in the Israeli military intelligence database accounted for just 17% of the total, which indicates that 83% of the dead were civilians. That apparent ratio of civilians to combatants among the dead is extremely high for modern warfare, even compared with conflicts notorious for indiscriminate killing, including the Syrian and Sudanese civil wars. “That proportion of civilians among those killed would be unusually high, particularly as it has been going on for such a long time,” said Therése Pettersson from the Uppsala Conflict Data Program, which tracks civilian casualties worldwide. “If you single out a particular city or battle in another conflict, you could find similar rates, but very rarely overall.”

‘A death sentence’: Relatives of hostages urge Netanyahu not to ‘torpedo’ deal to free captives https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-august-21-2025/ Relatives of Israeli hostages held in Gaza urge the government to accept a proposed ceasefire deal that would free 10 living captives, warning that a failure to do so would endanger their lives. “History is repeating itself,” says Lishay Miran Lavi, wife of Omri Miran, who is thought to be alive, at a press conference convened by the Hostages and Missing Families Forum, which represents relatives of most of the hostages held in Gaza. “We’re a step away from a total torpedoing” of the hostage agreement, she continues, in a play off a vow Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made last year that Israel was “a step away from victory.” “There’s an agreement on the table that can save living hostages and bring deceased ones back for a proper burial,” she adds. “Hamas has agreed but the Prime Minister’s Office is toiling to… decree a death sentence for the living hostages and a sentence of disappearance for the deceased ones.” Hamas agreed earlier this week to a 60-day ceasefire that would reportedly free 10 living hostages. Netanyahu has insisted on a comprehensive deal to end the war and has not convened his cabinet to discuss the 60-day truce. His government recently approved an invasion of Gaza City, and his far-right partners vehemently oppose a ceasefire deal. Opposition parties have vowed to back the deal, ensuring a majority for it in the Knesset. Families of hostages have accused Netanyahu’s government of prolonging the war, and of passing up opportunities to release hostages in an agreement, for political motives. They have warned that an invasion of Gaza City will endanger the lives of hostages held by Hamas.

Jeg tror de fleste nå mener dette dessverre er et folkemord, altså at svaret på det rettslige spørsmålet om den israelske regjeringen bryter folkemordkonvensjonen er ja. Vi har ingen målinger i Norge, men i USA og i Storbritannia viste målinger i vår at rundt halvparten av befolkningen mener det som skjer må karakteriseres som folkemord. Siden den tid har neppe denne andelen sunket, i takt med at grusomhetene og fordømmelsene av Israel har økt og at stadig flere aktører og eksperter - inkludert de største menneskerettsorganisasjonene, prominente eksperter internasjonalt og i Israel samt Holocaust-historikere - nå bruker dette begrepet om den israelske regjeringens handlinger mot palestinerne på Gazastripen. Også her i Norge har våre fremste eksperter på feltet de siste månedene brukt folkemord-begrepet, for eksempel Cecilie Hellestveit. Hellestveit: Israels krigføring i Gaza kan trolig karakteriseres som folkemord https://www.aftenposten.no/verden/i/ny61bo/hellestveit-israels-krigfoering-i-gaza-kan-trolig-karakteriseres-som-folkemord – Israel har med operasjonene etter 18. mai trolig beveget seg i retning av en politikk som vil kunne karakteriseres som folkemord etter den eksisterende høye terskelen for Den internasjonale domstolen (ICJ), mener Hellestveit.