To uker med Trump-shutdown

[jjkoggan]

Moderatormelding

Trådens 26 første innlegg er splittet ut fra Trump-tråden

 

 Ettersom det henvises til min person gjentatte ganger våger jeg å svare:

De bør ikke vente ... men heller finne seg noe nyttig å gjøre ... i privat virksomhet.

Selv om folk dør når ingen gjør jobben deres? Det er ikje noe problem for deg? En kort liste-

TSA screeners would keep examining luggage and air traffic controllers would show up for work, along with food safety inspectors, border patrol officers and federal prison guards, most FBI agents, doctors and nurses at the VA and other federal hospitals, and any federal emergency and disaster relief workers.
 

Hvem fanden bryr seg om at Trump ikke lenger betaler de ansatte ved de JFK presidential library ... eller noen av de andre byråkratene?

De ansatte og folk som reiser dit

Endret 6. januar 2019 av Camrot
Lagt inn mod-melding

[Skatteflyktning]

Selv om folk dør når ingen gjør jobben deres?

I Sovjetunionen trodde man at folk ville dø av sult om Staten ikke bakte brødene deres i sin tid.

 

Jeg har spist brød der både når staten bakte brød, og etter at staten sluttet å bake brød, og kan love at mange flere døde av brødene staten bakte enn de som bakes av private idag.

 

Det hele bygger på myten om at om staten slutter å gjøre noe så vil ingen andre ta på seg jobben.

[jjkoggan]

I Sovjetunionen trodde man at folk ville dø av sult om Staten ikke bakte brødene deres i sin tid.

 

Jeg har spist brød der både når staten bakte brød, og etter at staten sluttet å bake brød, og kan love at mange flere døde av brødene staten bakte enn de som bakes av private idag.

 

Det hele bygger på myten om at om staten slutter å gjøre noe så vil ingen andre ta på seg jobben.

Jeg vet du vil diskutere eliminering av staten istedenfor Trump men jeg holder meg til temaet og hevder at raske eliminering av viktige funksjoner som for eksempel helsebehandling fører til at de som er i meget dårlig helse og ikke kan betale for helseforsikring skal dø

 

At et anarki eller andre styreform ville løse mere problemer i det lange sikt er mulig men off topic. Vi snakker Om Trump og hva han sier og gjør idag og mulige konsekvensene.

[Skatteflyktning]

Jeg vet du vil diskutere eliminering av staten istedenfor Trump men jeg holder meg til temaet og hevder at raske eliminering av viktige funksjoner som for eksempel helsebehandling fører til at de som er i meget dårlig helse og ikke kan betale for helseforsikring skal dø

Du holder deg overhode ikke til tema ettersom Govt shutdown IKKE medfører "raske eliminering av viktige funksjoner som for eksempel helsebehandling".

 

Du fantaserer, eller rettere baserer deg på fantasier som fremlegges i media.

 

At et anarki eller andre styreform ville løse mere problemer i det lange sikt er mulig men off topic. Vi snakker Om Trump og hva han sier og gjør idag og mulige konsekvensene.

Det er ikke jeg som trekker inn "anarki eller andre styreformer".

[jjkoggan]

Du holder deg overhode ikke til tema ettersom Govt shutdown IKKE medfører "raske eliminering av viktige funksjoner som for eksempel helsebehandling".

 

Du fantaserer, eller rettere baserer deg på fantasier som fremlegges i media.

 

Det er ikke jeg som trekker inn "anarki eller andre styreformer".

Du anbefaler at disse leger/sykepleier søker andre jobber istedenfor å savne liv. Folk skal dø, særlig fattige i dårlig helse eller involvert i ulykker

 

Because Congress has yet to approve funding for the Indian Health Service, which is run by HHS but gets its money through the Department of the Interior, IHS feels the full weight of the shutdown. The only services that can continue are those that meet "immediate needs of the patients, medical staff, and medical facilities," according to the shutdown contingency plan.

 

That includes IHS-run clinics, which provide direct health care to tribes around the country. These facilities are open, and many staffers are reporting to work because they are deemed "excepted," said Jennifer Buschik, an agency spokeswoman. But they will not be paid until Congress and the administration reach a deal.

 

Other IHS programs are taking a more direct hit. For example, the agency has suspended grants that support tribal health programs as well as preventive health clinics run by the Office of Urban Indian Health Programs.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/03/681982370/how-the-federal-shutdown-is-affecting-health-programs

[Skatteflyktning]

Les dine egne kilder før du poster

 

Du anbefaler at disse leger/sykepleier søker andre jobber istedenfor å savne liv. Folk skal dø, særlig fattige i dårlig helse eller involvert i ulykker

 

Because Congress has yet to approve funding for the Indian Health Service, which is run by HHS but gets its money through the Department of the Interior, IHS feels the full weight of the shutdown. The only services that can continue are those that meet "immediate needs of the patients, medical staff, and medical facilities," according to the shutdown contingency plan.

 

That includes IHS-run clinics, which provide direct health care to tribes around the country. These facilities are open, and many staffers are reporting to work because they are deemed "excepted," said Jennifer Buschik, an agency spokeswoman. But they will not be paid until Congress and the administration reach a deal.

 

Other IHS programs are taking a more direct hit. For example, the agency has suspended grants that support tribal health programs as well as preventive health clinics run by the Office of Urban Indian Health Programs.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/01/03/681982370/how-the-federal-shutdown-is-affecting-health-programs

Kanskje du burde holde deg til å diskutere Trump og hans "gov't shutdown", istedenfor å hele tiden prøve å vri diskusjonen over på det du tror jeg fantaserer om?

Endret 5. januar 2019 av Skatteflyktning

[jjkoggan]

Les dine egne kilder før du poster

 

 

Medical services cannot continue if these people leave AS you suggest After all they are working without pay

[Skatteflyktning]

Medical services cannot continue if these people leave AS you suggest After all they are working without pay

Sure they can ... in the private sector. /off-topic

[jjkoggan]

Sure they can ... in the private sector. /off-topic

Not in the immefiate future and not without funds from Trump (on topic) and his shutdown. Private practices require insurance which many native Americans cannot afford Your support of Trumps threat of a long shutdown(you Want to go even further) will have serious consequences Endret 5. januar 2019 av jjkoggan

[Skatteflyktning]

 

Not in the immefiate future and not without funds from Trump (on topic) and his shutdown. Private practices require insurance which many native Americans cannot afford Your support of Trumps threat of a long shutdown(you Want to go even further) will have serious consequences

Undoubtedly ... key question is if those consequences are net positive or net negative.

 

I say that the bigger and longer the shutdown the better ... but I think the Democrats will fold (or rather declare victory and fold) pretty soon unfortunately, and Trump will get the abomination of a wall that he wants.

[jjkoggan]

 Undoubtedly ... key question is if those consequences are net positive or net negative.

 

I say that the bigger and longer the shutdown the better ... but I think the Democrats will fold (or rather declare victory and fold) pretty soon unfortunately, and Trump will get the abomination of a wall that he wants.

There is nothing positive about people dying when government employees suddenly quit their jobs to pursue jobs in the private market as you recommended or what is likely to occur from a long shutdown as Trump and you have suggested Endret 6. januar 2019 av jjkoggan

[Skatteflyktning]

There is nothing positive about people dying when government employees suddenly quit their jobs to pursue jobs in the private market as you recommended or what is likely to occur from a long shutdown as Trump and you have suggested

... except maybe LESS people will be dying if Govt is shut down.

 

It might even be that your Govt will stop actively killing people overseas .... for a little while.

 

Your fallacy is to draw conclusions on total effect from an extremely small and very biased sample (which in any case will receive care for any lifethreathening ailment) and ignoring the big picture.

 

Bit sad to see such an approach from you who in general keep to the scientific approach.

Endret 6. januar 2019 av Skatteflyktning

[jjkoggan]

... except maybe LESS people will be dying if Govt is shut down.

 

It might even be that your Govt will stop actively killing people overseas .... for a little while.

 

Your fallacy is to draw conclusions on total effect from an extremely small and very biased sample (which in any case will receive care for any lifethreathening ailment) and ignoring the big picture.

 

Bit sad to see such an approach from you who in general keep to the scientific approach.

And I thought we were talking about Trumps shutdown, not whether a complete shutdown of government (anarchy) would be best.

[Skatteflyktning]

And I thought we were talking about Trumps shutdown, not whether a complete shutdown of government (anarchy) would be best.

I am, even if you constantly want to bring the red herring of anarchy along instead.

Endret 6. januar 2019 av Skatteflyktning

[jjkoggan]

I am, even if you constantly want to bring the red herring of anarchy along instead.

Trumps shutdown is partial, not complete

[Skatteflyktning]

 

Trumps shutdown is partial, not complete

Indeed, my point exactly so maybe you can stop discussing complete shutdown?

 

Here an overview of what is affected and what is not:

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/20/18136667/partial-government-shutdown-post-office-military-passports

Endret 6. januar 2019 av Skatteflyktning

[jjkoggan]

 Indeed, my point exactly so maybe you can stop discussing complete shutdown?

The military/CIA is not shutdown, and is not part of Trumps shutdown, so your point of overseas deaths is only relevant to a complete shutdown.

 

Medical services to native Americans is not being funded and is relevant to trumps shutdown

[Skatteflyktning]

The military/CIA is not shutdown, and is not part of Trumps shutdown, so your point of overseas deaths is only relevant to a complete shutdown.

 

Medical services to native Americans is not being funded and is relevant to trumps shutdown

My point was that you base your conclusions on an extremely small, very biased sample and thus cannot draw any conclusions on net effects of the shutdown based on that.

[jjkoggan]

My point was that you base your conclusions on an extremely small, very biased sample and thus cannot draw any conclusions on net effects of the shutdown based on that.

What lives would be saved if unpaid government workers related to this partial shutdown suddenly quit? Federal prisoners (murderers and rapists included)would be set free, the coast guard would not save vessels in distress, fbi could not pursue criminals and terrorists could easily carry their bombs on airplanes, just to name a few functions

[Skatteflyktning]

 

What lives would be saved if unpaid government workers related to this partial shutdown suddenly quit? Federal prisoners (murderers and rapists included)would be set free, the coast guard would not save vessels in distress, fbi could not pursue criminals and terrorists could easily carry their bombs on airplanes, just to name a few functions

Any of those things set to happen under the Trump shutdown?

 

Or just back to the red herring?

Endret 6. januar 2019 av Skatteflyktning